Surreysinger wrote:
"Some pronouncements sound grand and promising, but are nevertheless mildly flawed - even from those who are very knowledgeable. For instance, Brian said...
'in terms of the old songs, the accounts of the singers themselves tell us over and over again that songs were learned from mothers, fathers, uncles and aunts.'
However, the likes of Henry Burstow and George Grantham made it quite clear that they learned songs from co-workers and other pub singers. Burstow recorded that he learned his songs from fellow cobblers, bellringers and singers AS WELL AS a substantial number from his father and mother."

Hello Irene. I try not to make 'pronouncements' on here, let alone grand ones. I put out my opinions and impressions, and people are free to contradict or correct them. In the case of Lucy Broadwood's work, I defer - of course - to your superior knowledge, and am interested to hear of your findings. What follows is not an attempt to score points, but to get my own thoughts in order!

Having stated my impressions about inter-familial and trans-generational transmission, I thought I'd do a quick trawl through the 'Voice of the People' liner notes and see whether they backed up those impressions or not. For the English singers, we find that Phil Tanner learnt many of his songs from his father and grandfather (and all his brothers were singers), Walter Pardon mostly from his Uncle Billy Gee (who had them from his own father), Turp Brown from his father ("all of the old ones"), and so forth. The Copper Family story hardly needs repeating.

It's certainly true that many singers supplemented their family repertoire in later life: Fred Jordan added to his father and mother's songs material from local travellers and - later - the folk revival; Harry Cox is well-known for travelling miles to pick up songs from pub singers, but nonetheless learned 'the majority' from his father, and more from other family members; Sam Larner and Jumbo Brightwell learned songs from their fathers (and Cyril Poacher from his grandfather and great uncles), but augmented them in adulthood with songs from fellow workers or singing acquaintances.

Outside England, the story is the same for the likes of Joe Heaney, Eddie Butcher (who sang no songs from outside his family), Sara Makem, Paddy Tunney, Mary Ann Carolan, Jeannie Robertson, and Belle Stewart (brother). All learned a substantial part of their repertoire from family members of previous generations. That doesn't mean that no other sources were significant: Margaret Barry learned additional songs from records and, while Jimmy McBeath had some songs from his mother, most were learned learned in the bothies. Pop Maynard learned songs from his father, brothers, sisters and ballad sheets.

So, no, the story isn't a simple one. But it seems to me that there is hardly a single traditional singer from the 20th century who did not learn a significant part of their repertoire in their own family. Oh, and don't forget Anna Brown and her Aunts!

"As a singer I'm none too sure of the total relevance of it all anyway."

As a singer, I agree it's not necessarily relevant at all. But as someone who tends to bandy about the word 'traditional', I think it does no harm for me to consider what it actually means, even at the risk of occasionally descending into dry, angels-on-a-pinhead arguments.