Little Hawk, I thought you were up on the history of World War II, but apparently you missed the important parts, including the things that led up to the fascist takeover of Italy and Germany and the oppression and government sponsored mass murder that followed.

There is nothing like "hysterical overreaction" about my objections to what Conrad is saying. It's a sense of history and the knowledge of where the philosophical and political principles that he wants us to "tolerate"—in the name of freedom (!!)—can eventually lead when put into action. And to me (and apparently to many others on this thread), what Conrad is advocating is patently clear.

And as to the last paragraph of your post just above, leave off with the armchair psychoanalysis, Little Hawk, your not very good at it. You totally misinterpret what I'm about, and you seem to be trying to denigrate me in the process.

And as to your "colorless neutrality," thats been the theme of your long history of sitting in the lotus position on your mountaintop and saying "tsk tsk" when someone takes a strong moral or ethical position on some issue. Smug, superior, and above it all. You say (as you just have) that you feel strongly about a lot of issues, but when do you ever really speak out strongly about them? Are you afraid to get in there and argue your positions? Apparently so, because all I ever see is you sniping at those who have strong viewpoints and who state and defend them.

And you will note that I'm not the only one who has remarked on this.

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Conrad, if you are aware, as you say you are, of the brutal excesses that took place under fascism—and are aware of the fact that this was a direct outgrowth of the kind of political ideology that spawn them—then tell my why you think we should be tolerant of—specifically—fascists?

Fascism is directly inimical to individual freedom. I don't see how someone who claims to favor freedom can possibly be tolerant of a political ideology that states up front that the State is everything, and that individuals, rather than being free, must be subservient to it.

Conrad—and Little Hawk—are you familiar with Martin Niemöller and the famous quote that is attributed to him? If not, I suggest you look it up.

Don Firth

P. S. Just in case anyone doesn't really understand what fascism is all about:

Fascism . . . is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives and values.

Fascism believes that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. It identifies violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality. It claims that culture is created by collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus rejects individualism. In viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, it claims that pluralism is a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety. It advocates the creation of a single-party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. Fascism rejects and resists autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered part of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be assimilated. Fascists consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront and threat to the nation.

Why should we be tolerant an ideology that is directly opposed to democracy, individual freedom, diversity, freedom of conscience, and everything else that we hold as essential to living in a civilized world?