"I know quite a few of these guys and the idea that they are part of some global conspiracy would be insulting if it wasn't so laughable."

Martin, I doubt that anyone is suggesting that the vast majority of scientists who support the theory of anthropmorphically caused global warming are part of a global conspiracy. I'm certainly not. When a popular idea is well-marketed by a few authoritative people in high places, and that idea becomes part of present orthodoxy...the vast majority of scientists and other people figure that it is right. They line up onside. They interpret existing information to support the idea, and they search diligently for any further evidence which appears to support the idea. They look skeptically on anything which doesn't appear to support the idea, and often simply dismiss it out of hand or re-interpret it to fit what they want to believe.

This is what people do. And that is why virtually all of Christendom once accused thousands of people of witchcraft and burned them at the stake. It was a part of their present orthodoxy. And that's why Galileo was forced to recant. He went against present orthodoxy. And that's why the world of science has often backed a completely erroneous theory for decades or even generations, and scoffed at anyone who challenged it. Because anyone who challenged it went against present orthodoxy, and that is not tolerated by most people, including in the world of science. There is much historical evidence to support what I say about that.

Now, there has been a very well organized media and science campaign for over a decade to promote the idea of human-caused global warming. That has its own weight of orthodoxy by now, and people tend to believe and support the orthodox, and so do scientists. In the case of the scientists, they go looking for evidence that further supports the theory...and they always find it. (even if the theory is wrong) Why? Because that's the evidence they're looking for! They don't tend to look for other evidence that doesn't support the theory, because they're not inclined to.

The Christian Church found all kinds of compelling "evidence" to prove their accusations of witchcraft...and virtually everyone believed it at the time (except for the accused and their close friends and relatives). The "evidence" was not real evidence at all, but it certainly appeared to be absolutely real evidence to those who wanted to believe it was.

You want to believe that the current theory of manmade global warming is correct. Fine. But it still may be a wrong theory anyway, and there's evidence that suggests that.

One thing that is very clear is that we ARE experiencing climate change, and we are experiencing global warming...but I doubt that man's activities are a major cause of it. I have reasons for doubting it, just like you have reasons for believing it. Either one of us may be right or may be wrong...but you are trailing around a red herring (or a straw man) in suggesting that critics of the present theory think that your 1700 scientists who signed that paper are all in some giant conspiracy. They don't have to be in a conspiracy to line up behind a popular idea, for heaven's sake.

I don't call it a conspiracy at all. I call it conventional thinking that is driving a presently popular theory...period. That presently popular theory may turn out to be a mistaken one in time.

Regardless of whether it does or not, we still must deal with the global warming that is happening ANYWAY....so what the heck is everybody trying to prove here, just prove that you are "right" in saying it's manmade and that anyone who doesn't say so is a heretic????? If so, why? Is it that important to be "right" and have someone else be wrong, just so you can feel superior or something?

If I can judge by most people's behaviour in these sort of debates...it is. ;-) I think it's a giant battle of egos that is going on here.

And the real truth is, not one of us here knows for certain whether the current theory of manmade global warming is correct or not. We may think we know...but we don't. We just have opinions about it, and that is all.