but Amos..(if you are not already on a plane)...

you once again say something like "... as you are being unusually obdurate .... That doesn't do justice to my position OR intent.

When you say: "I would rejoin that complexity alone cannot explain a phenomena that is profoundly, qualitatively different in nature." it 'feels' like a creationist saying "I can't imagine all this complexity being just a random series of events...it MUST be 'intelligent design!"

Well...*I* can't imagine a mind or entity being complex & powerful enough to design all this stuff!....and neither can I imagine the metaphysical entities you argue for......and..... I suspect that if I DID have an experience such as you suggest would change my ...ummm... attitude, I think I would look for causal explanations first....who can say what they would do *if* they had an experience they can't even imagine yet?

But I can assure you, I am NOT intentionally mis-understanding your points...or metaphors. I simply see logical problems with some of them......(read the exchanges between Ebbie & I on the "Open topics' thread...)