Joe Offer, That was a really good, well thought out post!..as was the one from Slag!!

Foolestroup: "...energy cannot be created nor destroyed" - it however can be converted endlessly from one manifestation to another...."

If you would have CAREFULLY read my post, I said the Same thing, (you phrased it, "it however can be converted endlessly from one manifestation to another"....

Then I posed the question, based on that premise, that the very 'life force', is just that...to which you disagreed!?!

Also, you got into ""what about conscious energy" - there is no such thing! (manifestion of energy) as "conscious energy". There is something scientifically vague we call (a state of) 'consciousness', which is the observed emergent result of complex electrical currents in the neurons. When that current flow stops, so does the consciousness -> oblivion.
..."

Those things, of which you speak, PROCESS, not CREATE energy. You've effectively contradicted yourself, but at least it SOUNDED impressive, as if you knew what you were talking about....It's a common mistake...I forgive you..that being said, you might want to re-examine your thoughts on the matter! (wink)

Jim Carroll: "Why am I interested in matters religious? Because I have witnessed its malign influence; from afar as a member of the general public, and up close on a personal level, with the effect upon my family and friends."

(Jim, My following is not argumentative in nature to you, so when you read it, try not to project a hostile difference, or contention)

I think it was in one of your (I could be wrong, about yours) posts, that you also mentioned, the quote, about, 'Give me a child under five and he'll be (something), all his life" (something to that effect, I scrolled back, and couldn't find it, nonetheless, its somewhere, there).
That quote is most often quoted by Roman Catholics...I've heard it before, and coupled with your other quote(which I cut and pasted), and the tone of other posts you've posted, it sounds to me that you have a deep hurt, and/or disillusion with the Catholic Church, possibly something you grew out of, but still carry the scars, in the form of (a)hostility...which I can understand. Plus all the bad PR that the church has accrued, with all the child abuse scandals, tend to re-reinforce your personal bitterness. (Safe to say?) Then the CC puts a thing on your head, that to hear about Jesus/God/anything 'religious', outside of the CC is a 'heresy'..because the CC is the ONLY 'true representative' of the 'correct' teachings of Jesus, and they are the ONLY true church...correct? The reason that I'm inquiring, is because in your posts, there comes through a DEFINITE anger, and closed mind on the issue...Which, I can empathize with, ok?.......Let me know if I'm correct, so far, ok?
I have NO intention of 'jumping your case'...'or getting in your face'.....However, as my mom used to say, "Try not to run from something(Bad), but rather, to GO to something good, but let go of the hurt"......It does not do a lot of good, to kill a poisonous snake that bit you...if the venom, is still in you.
Hopefully this was received, in the right intention, that I sent it.

Regards,
GfS