Ah well, horses, etc. If that is so, how has the modern Irish guitar style found a place? I don't like Irish tunes but they have produced some very able guitar contributions. I think what RiM and CP are really trying to say is that they don't want the guitar musically to contribute. Who is to say that a counter rhythm is ugly? I was once singing a shanty in Maidstone (it was in B major, I recall) and the whole thing was given a marvellous lift by an essentially blues based guitar riff/chug that just came in from nowhere. I can only think of one banjo player I have ever heard who can fit in like that - but he is very fine.