""if the deciples did "spice up the pudding";it seems that they were willing to suffer and die for it.seems very foolish if they did,nt believe it themselves, or had falsified the story.""

Here is one of the problems Pete. The first written records of the New Testament did not appear until over a hundred years after Jesus' death.

The "Chinese Whispers" effect over several generations of a group which was being actively persecuted might be expected to produce considerable distortion of the facts.

The Romans executed Christians. They didn't try to convert them first, they just got shot of 'em ASAP.

In those circumstances, martyrs killed for refusing to convert are quite unlikely.

Much more likely is that the leaders of the movement, needing a rallying call, adjusted the stories to suit.

I can't prove that is what happened, so I present it as a possibility.

You can't prove that it wasn't, but you ignore the possibility and claim martyrdom as an established fact.

To me that epitomises the difference between science and faith.

Don T.