Jim ~~ I do, really, take your point. That is the point of the parallel thread to this one that I have OP'd, just on "The concept of 'punishment'" per se ~~ that punishment is at best a negative & futile reaction to wrongdoing at every level, from hanging and flogging and torture to smacked wrists and school detentions and 'grounding' & bed-without-supper ~~

~~ but if any society [apart just possibly from certain very small Native American tribes mentioned by one poster] has ever thought up an alternative, or contrived somehow to do without it, I have never heard of it ~~ and neither has anyone who has so far posted, either here or there.

So what do you suggest?

~Michael~

Might be worth mentioning, here & I will put it on the other thread also, that in my teaching days I would often say to a new class, "I don't believe in punishment", & they would look pleased ~~ until I added, "You start!".