"That's a pretty extreme and hyperbolic reaction to the point I'm making."
Sorry Spleen - what hedge have you been sleeping under - it is not extreme - do you want me to dig out Paul Sweeney's menu of what we will be served up at his club; or any other descriptions of what goes on in clubs describing themselves as 'folk'? From memory, Paul's includes hip-hop (as applied to Lucy Wan by one of our rising young 'folk' stars), heavy metal, opera, jazz.... will dig out the list if you insist. I suggest you trawl through some of the 'talking-horse' postings and see what passes for legitimate fare at some 'folk' clubs.
Going by your own definition - what right have you to suggest that Elvis tributes don't count at a folk club - the club is the community, therefore anything they care to put on is 'traditional' - isn't that what you are suggesting?
The first time I had my attenion drawn to exactly how far the revival has strayed was when a North of England club announced that they had just had a 'Beatles' night.
".....doesn't exist anymore"
No it doesn't, I agree entirely. The communities that once made such music have becom passive recipients of their art and entertainment.
Doesn't mean we can't still enjoy the music they once made and passed on; nor does it mean we can't continue to make music and song using the old models - long may it continue - I've had a lifetime's enjoyment from it. I count as my main musical influence the singer who helped start the present revival, breathed life into 137 of the Child ballads and hundreds of traditional songs and wrote more new songs based on traditional styles than any other single individual on the scene
We are not discusing what we do or what we listen to - we are attempting to define 'traditional'.
In the end this is an academic discussion; traditional song and music is probably as well, if not better archived and documented as any other musical form. Anybody seriously wishing to find out what defines traditional music is free to pick up 'Folk Song in England', or 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads', or 'English Folk Songs, Some Conclusions', or 'The Traditional English Ballad' or any other of the many hundreds of works on the subject.
My argumant is not one of personal preference or activity, it's just how we define what we are doing.
There seems to be some sort of a death wish in all of this.
In a few weeks time on the 17th of next month there will be something like 100 youngsters (mostly of school age) in this one street town celebrating St Pat's Day by playing (real) traditional music, most of them to an excellent standard. This hasn't been achieved faffing about attempting to re-define, or even de-define what we mean by 'olk' or 'traditional', but simply by a dedicated few explaining what it is and persuading them how enjoyable it is.
"however hackneyed Jim might see them"
Wasn't aware I'd expressed an opinion on the merits of the song - I quite enjoyed the film and the song worked perfectly in that context - this has nothing to do with my argument.
Jim Carroll