The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #34080   Message #3125652
Posted By: Gibb Sahib
31-Mar-11 - 02:11 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Blood Red Roses (what's it mean?)
Subject: RE: Origins: Blood Red Roses (what's it mean?)
Interesting to compare this other chantey appearence of "roses." The 1909 Coast Seamen's Journal article attribute to F. Buryeson has these lyrics in "Haul Away, Joe."

Away, haul away, boys, and haul away, my rosies.
Away, haul away, and haul away, Joe.

Away, haul away, boys, and haul, my bunch of posies.
Away, haul away, and haul away, Joe.

First off, the lyrics in the article seem to reflect oral tradition, and don't seem to be derivative of any printed material. So it is a good piece of evidence for comparison.


It may be notable that there is no "red" or "blood-red" here, either.

"Haul Away Joe" is a song that I think can be reasonably argued to have had its genesis in the minstrel-y "Jim Along Josey" -- a song of the American milieu, w/ Afro-American associations. Certainly by 1909 it had developed a lot, and whatever its geographic and cultural origins, they are not necessarily relevant. However, one can wonder if, in the same way the "bunch of roses" idea turned up in Caribbean and Black American songs, it turned up here.

On the other hand, it could be a phrase of chantydom that was shared within that repertoire, with no necessary national or cultural associations attached to it. For example, the shantman might have lifted the rhyme from the "Bunch of Roses" shanty itself.

On the third hand (of the alien man), "rosies" could be simply what happened to the word "josey."

Most people are familiar with the version of Haul Away Joe that has "Rosey"/"Rosie" construed as a woman's name. But I won't speculate when and how each of these changes might of happened.

Lots of possibilities...impossible to say... I guess the one thing I would go out on a limb and argue is that the evidence of the Haul Away Joe again challenges the idea that "Bunch of Roses" was a chanty conceived in reference to any military forces.