"Killing a combatant is.
Doing it with a bomb is legally acceptable whether we like it or not Jim."
Once again you avoid the issue, which was the needless killing of civiliians - written off by you as 'only twenty' though, given the situation, could have been many more - as with the wisdom of throwing open your country to a nation with a track record of human rights abuses, you slither around the question.
I am not discussing the issue of legality - I am asking you to confirm or deny your previous attitude that civilian lives (collateral damage) were expendable - your continued silence on the issue indicates that, as with the use of torture by the US to extract information, you most certainly are.
The only "lie" here is your own.
Plan B was that if bin Laden had attempted to flee (not a combat situation) a 2,000lb bomb should be dropped, wiping out all men, women and children in the compound, (not to mention those in the immediate surrounding area).
Reports indicate that there were between 12 to 17 women and children in the compound, so it is a major massacre of civilians the US was prepared to carry out, for which you are giving your support.
This might have been even more disasterous as, according to the New York Times and The Washington Post, the US troops planned to fight their way out if they had met with any resistance from the Pakistani forces - another battleground to add to Iran and Afghanistan.
"Jim accuses me of hiding behind experts"
I do indeed, and you are, and your persistant use of the excuse, here and elsewhere rings suspiciously like "Ve vere just obeying orders"; the excuse for every inhuman military and political act throughout the 20th century.
Will:
Your excuses for the torture flights by the US really don't stand up.
Their existance here is pretty well accepted and all but admitted by the government - excused, as is the use of torture, as part of the fight against terror.
Plenty more news items on the web - that was just a random gathering.
The suspicion that they continue remains and is fortified by the continued refusal to inspect the planes.
"Really, Jim! In addition to being pointless, that's unworthy of you!"
Probably (for which I apologise),but it might just have had something to do with being accused of making up information, being Anti-American and supporting strange causes, none of which is remotely true.
I welcomed the election of Obama - even got drunk on the night of the announcement on the strength of it; (though admittedly, I would have welcomed the election of Roland Rat in preference to the previous administration).
However, Guantanamo Concentration Camp still remains, despite promises, the suspects remain untried, torture of one form or another is almost certainly still used, and cowboy behaviour like that under discussion continues to make our world a minefield at a time when diplomacy is desperately needed.
Despite claims to the contrary, the US has added yet another enemy to its already formidable list. Pakistan has been deeply offended and alienated by the incursion to the extent that the identity of the head of the CIA has been deliberately made public in retaliation.
Some years ago a British newspaper published a list of over 50 countries where the US had participated in military action since the end of WW2 (these didn't include places where clandestine activity and financial and political interference had taken place).
We threw that list away when it became hopelessly out-of-date.
We live in hope that Obama will take steps to reverse the low opinion of the US (governments not people), but he's taking an awfully long time about it and vengeful adventures like this really don't help.
It's hard not to notice that nutters like Six-Gun-Sarah and The Tea Party are waiting in the wings should he go down, especially as we haven't fully recovered from the last meglo!
As Keith is over-fond of saying - "don't shoot the messenger".
Jim Carroll