Genuinely not that much disgreement between us Al; though our mileages clearly vary to an extent.

On the matter of 'violence' which you raised: I OPd a thread a while back on punishment as a concept. IMO all punishment is to an extent violent, by definition, because, by its nature, it consists of forcible imposition by the 'awarding' authority on the recipient of an experience he would have preferred not to undergo: otherwise it just isn't a punishment. School pupils are not generally stupid: they know the difference between bullying a younger or weaker pupil and receiving an organised and reasonably moderate physical punishment as a consequence; and would never regard the latter as any sort of justification for the former.

In the same way your father, as I perceive it, clearly recognised the difference between reasonable restraint of a violent criminal and the sort of abuse to which occasional black sheep amongst the constabulary are unfortunately prone.

Orwell was a brilliant man in his way, but a bit of an upper-class dropout & do-gooder. I would not personally accept all his views as indisputable.

~M~