Morwen: Do you live in the part of E Asia I mentioned above (in reply to a point you made about the reported survival of corporal punishment in some places) where punishments of up to 24 strokes with a heavy 4-ft cane are still given, often in addition to a prison sentence, to rapists or other violent criminals? If so, what do you think about that?

FAO Dave: I would add to this question, addressed to Dave, that I am not sure that I would advocate return of the cat; but if anyone recommended the re-use of the (probably a bit less severe) birch for hoodies who mug old ladies I should not lose any sleep over the prospect of some of the yobbos getting it. Where that leaves me in the 'arsehole' stakes is a matter for your consideration, not mine.

~M~