I am not talking about recognizing that a country exists and going through various protocols..I am talking about making them admit that the country that is occupying them (in general, theoretically speaking) has a right to exist. Why add that bit of humiliation and case for future bitterness? That is different than admitting that they do exist and we will grit out teeth and bear it and follow standard international practices. of course it does not mean as long as you refuse to admit of a "right to exist" you get to attack them, etc. mg