Brilliant work, sian! – Can't believe you found it. Thank you for the time and effort. You have contributed something to all who might use Stan Hugill's book which, as I said, is missing the complete verse. And thank you to Mike for supplying the source info about the dearth of Welsh chanties.

I am still unclear where the English-lang. "Marco Polo" verse comes from. Did Davies write it?

I am going to drift slighty off; hopefully no one minds.

You might be aware that I am very interested in chanties, especially in their development. So I find it intriguing that there were no or very few Welsh ones, for two reasons.

First reason is that I think Stan Hugill leads one to believe that "Welsh chanties", though not something huge, were nonetheless something significant. Such an impression led me to include "Welsh" among the languages for chanties in an article that I wrote. I am interested here because I am engaged in an on-going critique of Hugill's Shanties from the Seven Seas book, in light of the fact that it has been so influential on current performance yet it contains so many errors and lots of contrivances (mixed in, of course, with plenty of good work, too). Though you guys have enlightened me, I'm not yet in the position to really critique Hugill in this case, i.e. as to whether he was being disingenuous or failed in his critical duties. I am going to post the info from his remarks on Welsh chanties below, to see how people think it fits in to what is being discussed here.

The second reason I am intrigued by no/few Welsh chanties is that I have specific, well developed opinions about the origin and development of chanties – which I'll not try to impress upon people here, but I'll just summarize. That is, that what were initially called chanties were a style/phenomenon originating with African-American worksong practices. It spread from there, though minimally, in the earlier times, chanties were a distinctly English-language phenomenon. There were some shipboard work song traditions prior to and concurrent with "chanties" that were in other languages, but if one looks really closely, they can be distinguished from the phenomenon called chanties – at a point. In later years, the term "chanty" would be expanded to encompass most any work song, whether in non-English from earlier times (e.g. Norwegian songs at the capstan) or whether non-English songs adapted or created later to fill the function of a chanty. Most of the non-English chanties that truly resemble chanties, I maintain, are borrowings/translations of English-language chanties. Other non-English chanties are different in style, usually being heaving chanties which, as any chantyman can tell you, can be borrowed wholesale from a wide range of non-chanty material. On the other hand, hauling chanties, those which are most unique to the shipboard genre, do not really occur in non-English, except as translations of English hauling songs or in strange-ish/outlier forms that really do not resemble the form of English hauling chanties (and which therefore, according to my opinion, have merely come under the label of 'chanty' after the fact).

Perhaps that is somewhat confusing, or maybe too nerdy for anyone here to care! But anyway, it all goes to say that I would not be surprised to learn that there were no Welsh chanties, in that light, or that all were heaving (no hauling) chanties and most likely adaptations of previously existing folk/popular songs.

OK so here are Hugill's notes on the Welsh chanties. Along with them, I am putting renditions that I recently recorded. Please bear in mind that these are my first attempts to sing in Welsh. So why post it then, you ask, if I cannot do justice to the language? It is simply part of a much larger project, in which i am rendering all of the chanties in Hugill's book. The personal reason for that is to achieve a deeper engagement with the book, and the public reason is to provide stepping stones, however small, between the written page and future performances by people who can do more justice but who have difficulty converting texts into performance. So please accept my apologies for any "butchering" of the language.

I see now that Hugill's bibliography includes Davies' Cerddi Huw Puw [1923] and Cerddi Portinllaen, with the semantically odd note "Welsh versions of British shanties." The main text has three Welsh songs.

1. Mochyn Du

I now give one of the most popular capstan shanties ever sung aboard of ships with entire Welsh crews, ships hailing in the main from Liverpool. This is a folk song called Mochyn Du or The Black Pig. My informant declared that it was even more popular than another Welsh folk-song frequently heard at the capstan when the singers hailed from Cambria—Hob-y-derridando. I obtained the words of this version from H.B. Jones. There were many other versions but not all of them were used at sea. It was often raised when anchor-heaving aboard the Cambrian Queen (Captain Davies).

His main version follows, with two Welsh verses.

Mochyn Du

Then he offers what he says were "English words often sung to this tune" – one verse of the "Cosher Bailey" type, i.e. "Davy Davy comes from Nevin", and directs us to "Hob y Deri Dando" for the rest.

So are we to assume "H.B. Jones" gave the "folk song" version to Hugill, and Hugill felt the license to call it a chanty form? Or should we assume that Jones presented it, w/ Welsh words, as a chanty?


2. Hob-y-Derri(n)-Dando

A great favourite with Welsh seamen at the capstan was the Cambrian folk-song Hob-y-derri(n)-dando. It was often sung aboard Davis's ships of Liverpool, and Professor J. Glyn Davies told me that his brother related how the anchor was hove up in Bombay Harbour aboard the ship Dominion, when commanded by Captain Henry Thomas, to this rousing tune. The following version is one given me by Bill Morris, an old Aberdovey seaman of the days of sail who died a few years ago in his eighties.

The version has 3 Welsh verses, the 3rd being the one with the missing line discovered by sian. [Incidentally, the English translation of all 4 lines of verse is given, as follows:

There is in Nevin a light ale, boys,
This ale it is both food and drink,
When I filled me belly full,
Till I was turning like a cartwheel.]

The start of another Welsh verse is given, from "Bill Morris":
Ar y fford wrth fynd i Lundain,
Mi gwrddais a theiliwr llawen.

Hugill continues:
Sometimes 'Borth' was sung about instead of London, with 'torth' (loaf) as the rhyming word in the second line. Many of the verses Welsh sailors sang were bawdy. Verses with English words were often sung to this old song when heaving at the capstan. They were in the main the same as those sung to the other Welsh folk-song used at the capstan by Welsh seamen—Mochyn Du.

Here he gives 5 Cosher Bailey type verses, i.e. Davy Davy comes from Nevin, etc., but fits them to the Welsh chorus. Then he mentions an English chorus in one of RR Terry's books: "Jane, Jane, come to the glen/ To sing praise to Shanny Vach Voin!"

Hob-Y-Derri(n)-Dando

So again he seems to imply that a veteran seaman, "Bill Morris," presented a Welsh form as a chanty.

3. Rownd yr Horn

And now we present a Welsh shanty which, according to my informant, Mr. David Thomas of Bangor, is said to have been 'composed' by Captain Richard Pritchard of Amlwch. Captain Pritchard was known as 'Dic Comon Sens', i.e. 'Common-sense Dick'. Mr. Thomas took down the words and tune from the singing of an old retired sea captain. The old captain called it a "shanti' and it was probably sung at the capstan. Mr. Thomas said that there were many more verses in the complete shanty, but he did not know them. Mr. Gwion Davies of Llanfairfechan gave me a similar version often sung aborad a certain South Georgia whaler. He said that the second 'Rownd yr Horn!' would be yelled out in English—'Round the Horrrn!'

Then he gives the song, with 2 verses, only in Welsh.

Rownd Yr Horn

So it seems to be an 'authentic' sea version…unless these informants learned them sometime between Davies' publication and the 1950s (when Hugill was working in Aberdovey). Thoughts?