GUEST,sensible chap: " I thinkyou are all missing the point. These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working."



Nobody is missing the point. Although, if anyone is, I think it's you. If people are getting more money for "shirking" than others are for working, you've identified a serious problem but picked the wrong target to whinge about. If you resent the amount of housing benefit that is paid - which, incidentally, goes straight to the landlord and recipients never actually see the money - then you want to question house prices and rents. Speculative buy-to-let landlords, high on 'property porn' TV, and governments over the last 30 years are to blame here not housing benefit recipients - the majority of whom are actually in work anyway. More housing, which is desperately needed, would sort this problem out. The problem is, home owners who are expecting massive returns on buying houses in the 1980s and 1990s, and maybe even the last decade, are unwilling to take the hit on any house 'value' following large-scale building programmes.

The real issue is not that benefits are too high, it's that wages are too low. The fact that working tax credits have ever existed is an acknowledgement of this, albeit a benefit that really supports/subsidises employers rather than employees.

"Why else can they afford the things i have outlined as well spending their days in the pubs and betting shops and their nights clubbing?"

Again, a nonsense. Sit down with a pen and paper, remove gas/electric/water/food/travel (necessary for job interviews &c)/phone (ownership of is expected at JobCentre &c) and see how much is left for "days in the pubs" and "nights clubbing" and whatever fantasy lifestyle you believe the jobless are living.

"Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.?"

See my other post above. It's farcical to try and compare Poles and other Eastern Europeans to Britain's jobless. Many Poles themselves believe this myth that Poles can come here and find work on every corner. The fact that it isn't the case has lead to the creation of charities specifically for homeless Poles who can't find work or housing here. I have contact with Poles on a regular basis who are looking for voluntary work (hoping it will somehow lead to paid work) as they can't find paid employment in this country. The living/working conditions of many Poles in this country aren't 'do-able' long-term. Seasonal work is just that, and many contracts are temporary. The Poles in my town (and I know a fair few) literally live 6 or 7 to a single bed flat, squirrelling money away for short periods before going home. They don't expect to do it on a long-term basis as, long-term, they want flats/homes to themselves with regular, 'normal' work.

Also, if people don't have the skills that some Poles have and therefore can't do some of the work Poles do, then it's not necessarily the fault of the jobless either. A classic example is building work. A lot of councils ended their apprenticeship schemes in the late 1980s and starting tendering out building work to private firms which meant a traditional avenue for that kind of training was lost. This meant that local colleges then had to take up students wanting to go down that vocational training route. This created waiting lists of *years* to get on these kinds of courses. In the mean time, by the 1990s, businesses and government are telling everyone that computer-based skills are the new boom sectors so 'old-fashioned' vocational training is pared down at colleges. Years on, we're seeing a cull in ostensibly computer-driven office work (thanks to the government's 'non-jobs' narrative) and much IT/programming outsourced abroad. Since the 1980s loads of industries and employment areas have pretty much vanished in this country along with the training to do them and a lot of whatever was created to replace them is now going the same way (or at least to India). And yet, somehow, you still seem intent on blaming the unemployed themselves? Ridiculous.

"Iam all for a fair shake but some of these unemployable homineds can trace there unemployment. . Or lack of it back three generations."

For now, the numbers of generationally unemployed are very, very small. Practically neglible. Until the last couple of years, the amount of job-seekers out of work for 12 months or more was far lower than people most people expect.

"work you slackers work!!!!"

I see this kind of comment all over the internet. Yet whenever I ask anyone (of working age) are there jobs going at their place, no one has ever said 'yes'. Invariably, when people are pushed on this, either people are being laid-off or there's a recruitment freeze.

If people are to work, there has to be jobs. And if there's jobs, then people should be paid a living wage. Benefits aren't that.

Anyway, last post on this as you're either a troll or some 'just world' Randroid fantasist.