The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #146595   Message #3394772
Posted By: Jim Carroll
25-Aug-12 - 02:52 AM
Thread Name: Can a pop song become traditional?
Subject: RE: Can a pop song become traditional?
" If you look at the website of The International Society for Traditional Music it says......"
Having your cake and eating it Bland?
You have made a career of sneering at the findings of the ISTM and at trying to show that they have no right to define folk music; now, it appears, you are citing their present policy as proof that pop songs can be Traditional - "Pop music is Traditional Music".
I trust your recent (between yesteday's thread and now) trip down the Road to Damascus was a pleasant one - or is it a case of manipulating the world from your armchair?
Definitions are never a matter of waiting for pronouncements from above and then carving them in stone.
The 1954 definition worked (to a degree) because it became universaly accepted both by performers and researchers, for long enough for it to take root; it became recognised as a guide to an understanding what made up folk music, and, because nobody has come up with a suitable alternative to day, it remains just that.
It not only stood the test of time and acted as a unifying means of communication between interested people and groups across the world but it stood the litmus test of making sense to what many of us found in the field - it worked.
The present offerings of the ISTM have undergone no such process, have not been widely and openly discussed and have not stood any particular test of time - they are one opinionion among a group of others.
You have persistantly accused other of accepting the '54 definition as a set of rules, which is exactly what you are doing here because this particular "rule book" happens to fit your somewhat bizarre (if sedentary) pronouncements.      
"I seriously doubt if there is any folk song which was not first a popular composed song"
Depends what you mean by "popular" Charlie.
My particular 'Road to Damascus' was finding the existance of several hundred songs that never left the Traveller sites or the rural communities in which they were made, yet they served those communities, in some cases for generations, in the mouths of tiny handfuls of people - not part of the national 'traditional' repertoir and not really widely popular enough to be described as 'popularly composed', but certainly traditional.
It's complicated
Jim Carroll