Wow! I'm impressed. Guest started this mess trying to get people mad and look what happened. Very good, Mudcatters! Way to go!

There are some very interesting points made above. Clinton and Troll came up with the sad old conservative argument that there is no hard evidence that industrialization is responsible for global warming. I'm not going to argue that with them. It is the same type of argument the cigarette companies used to use when they suppressed studies showing that smoking is harmful.

Rather I want to ask a question. If there is a POTENTIAL that industrialization is a cause of global warming why isn't that enough of a reason to clean up our act. Why do we have to wait for it to be proved? By the time the proof is in hand it may be too late to do anything. Or the changes we need to make will be too much too quickly and therefore too expensive.

Guest's other statement had to do with overconsumption. That too was dealt with rather well above. Consumption is an individual choice and in our capitalist society the consumer rules the roost. If the manufacturer believes an item will sell he will make it. If that manufacturer can make people buy something through advertising then he will make it. This applies to more than just the USA.

Overpopulation is a fact and a hard one to face. You cannot legislate the biological imperitive to reproduce. Those of you who have chosen not to have children are to be congratulated. Was there ever a time, however short, when you regretted that decision, when the old biological need made you think again on your choice? (I tend to believe there must have been for some of you at least but that is beside the point.)

As Kendall pointed out above the available arable land is a fixed quantity and what we can do with that land is limited. Technology could find a way out of that box, and may be our only salvation, but we will need to find that path groping through the dark sea of bodies pressing in from every direction.

This is because you cannot tell people not to reproduce and you cannot force that on them either. We will continue to reproduce until war, famine or pestilence cuts the numbers back. It's just Mom Nature going about her business. What do you think is the real reason behind all the conflicts taking place around the globe?

And so here we are on the road to. where? What is our future? I have an idea. We will continue to spoil the globe, people will continue to reproduce and die, the USA will continue to be the dream the others hope to achieve, either in their own homes or by traveling to it, and our children and grandchildren will have to cope with the problems we have handed them.

It may not be an uplifting vision of the future but at least it isn't Ragnarok.