The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #149410   Message #3477577
Posted By: Bill D
09-Feb-13 - 12:54 PM
Thread Name: BS: The 10 Commandments for atheists
Subject: RE: BS: The 10 Commandments for atheists
"I happen to think that it is intuitively obvious that God does not exist."

Well Steve, I see every explanatory point you make in defending that view, and can only disagree with the absoluteness of it. You note the ease with which children believe in stories about all sorts of stuff which *most* grownups 'know' are imaginary, but you don't seem to be able to even consider the reason(s) that grownups hold onto the 'God' concept even after outgrowing "goblins, fairies Santa, the Sandman etc."
I happen to agree with you that they should, but emotionally, culturally, and even logically, 'God' is in a different category. We don't NEED goblins & fairies & Santa to answer the basic question of our basic existence.
(I know, I DO know.... we don't really **logically** need 'God' either, but until we figure out how to inoculate folks against fear & dread & sadness and explain the inequities of life, 'God' and the idea of an afterlife provides a way to face poverty, death and the 'inequities of life'.) Who can say why you & I are [content]? with NOT having "pie in the sky", while others see no reason to go on living without that hope? (well... psychologists try hard to explain it) I claim...over & over... that our very language structure and phrasing of the issues creates a circular trap that most people find hard to escape. When someone asks: "Do you believe in God?", I reply that the very construction of the question implicitly asserts that there is one, and that because they USE the word 'belief', they should realize that the real implication is that it is NOT certain.

We differ, Steve, in that you say "intuitively obvious" that there is no 'God' and related Heaven setup, and I say "I simply see no compelling evidence, therefore I will not buy into it all." I always just shrug when someone tells me "there must be a first cause" or even stronger: "I can't imagine all the complexity of the Universe without an 'intelligent designer'!"
I just reply: "Well, *I* can't imagine any intelligence great enough to DO all the designing required... much less being able to toss atoms around like clay!"..... but, the Universe being what it is, and answers being so elusive beyond a certain point, I can't prove them wrong... and 'they' know that and cling to the emotionally useful beliefs. All I can do is say that their beliefs are JUST beliefs and have no compelling influence on my doubts.

In many ways, believing in religious stuff is just another example of the ways our large, complex brain can reflect on possibilities and imagine things that do not exist. We (well, most of us) enjoy imaginative fiction and art which draws pictures of unicorns and songs about devils and heroes all doing things that we 'know' are impossible... except that because even the weakest (as in young children) brains are capable of entertaining possibilities, even unicorns & devils are incorporated into many belief systems.
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Now, having typed all that, I have to admit that I was studiously avoiding a direct response to "gestlexic" above. That would require 6 hours to dissect.. , so I will hope the 'guestlexic' will just read my reply to Steve Shaw and think about it.