The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #149360   Message #3491136
Posted By: Jim Carroll
16-Mar-13 - 12:30 PM
Thread Name: BS: Israel condemned by UN
Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
There were no ground whatever to assume that there were any PLO fighters there - the 'light show' lasted the full length of the massacre and not one shot was fired in opposition.
Perhaps you would like the rest of your article from the totally irellevant New York Times article quote (there are 11 pages for you to have chosen from and you chose - what??) - I've added the link which you continue to omit in order to discourage people from searching the article out.
Please, please tell me that the NYT is an anti-Semite liar and cannot be trusted.
"Jack Straw, Ann Cryer, Lord Ahmed, Mohamed Shafiq, Albhai-Brown'
Not one of them made any comment about "all male Pakistanis", and nobody would have dared to suggest a "cultural implant" for fear of being hit with a 'incitement to race hatred' charge - that is entirely your invention and it is that which makes you the racist you are.
You cold of course, prove me wrong, but so far you have resisted all attempts to provide one single example of any of your 'sources' saying anything resembling your inflammatory statement.
You have had ample time to back your claim and you have consitently , by your non compliance, refused to do so, don't suppose for one minute you will do so now.
Mike
"I was commenting on Jim's style & content,"
A typically evasive reply
I have always tried to back up my claims with relaible documented proof - perhaps you might claim that Keith has done the same here and when I have been proved wrong I have withdrawn my statement and apologised - No? I thought not.
Jim Carroll

First, the Christian militiamen entered the camp with the full knowledge of the Israeli Army, which provided them with at least some of their arms and provisions and assisted them with flares during nighttime operations.
Second, the Israelis had to have known that there was deep and pervasive fear of the Christian militiamen among the Palestinian residents of the camps, because of past atrocities committed by the Christians and Palestinians on each other during the Lebanese civil war.
Third, the Israeli Army began to learn on the evening of Thursday, Sept. 16, that civilians were being killed in Shatila, SINCE FROM THE MOMENT THESE ARMED MEN ENTERED THE CAMPS THEY BEGAN MURDERING PEOPLE AT RANDOM AND THOSE WHO FLED FLEE TOLD THE ISRAELIS WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

The Extent of the Evidence
By Friday morning, there was enough evidence of untoward acts by the militiamen that the senior Israeli commander in Lebanon ordered their operations halted, according to the Israeli Government. Yet, according to Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the militiamen doing the killing were told by the Israelis they could stay inside the camps until Saturday morning, and the murders continued until they left.
FOURTH, THERE IS EVERY INDICATION THAT WHEN THE ISRAELI ARMY ENTERED WEST BEIRUT EARLIER THAT WEEK THAT IT ENCOUNTERED NO SERIOUS RESISTANCE, IF ANY, FROM THE SABRA AND SHATILA REFUGEE CAMPS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE CAMPS APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN RESIGNED TO THE ISRAELIS COMING INTO THEIR AREA AND DISARMING THEM.
Evidence of Haddad's Role
Finally, there is still no solid information on the precise makeup and command structure of the Christian militia force, which also apparently included some Shiite Moslems. But there is ample circumstantial evidence that members of the Israeli-armed and trained militia of Maj. Saad Haddad and members of the Christian Phalangist militia - also known as the Lebanese Forces -were in the camps. Whether or not they were there under orders from Major Haddad or the Phalangist militiary and political leadership is not clear. The possibility of breakaway elements being involved cannot be ruled out at this point.
Once Yasir Arafat, the P.L.O. chairman, decided in early July that he would be leaving Lebanon, his major concern was to make certain that the Lebanese Government and the special United States envoy, Philip C. Habib, provided proper security guarantees for the thousands of Palestinian civilians who would be left behind without P.L.O. protection.
During the talks on ending the Israeli siege of Beirut, P.L.O. officials and the Sunni Moslem leaders of West Beirut - notably Prime Minister Shafik al-Wazzan and former Prime Minister Saeb Salam - repeatedly expressed the view that Israeli tanks could not be permitted to enter West Beirut with Phalangist militiamen in their train.
The reason was fear.
This fear, which the negotiators repeatedly expressed in public and which was surely known to the Israelis, was rooted in a series of mass killings and attacks - perpetrated by Lebanese Christian militiamen against Palestinians and Moslems, and by Moslems and Palestinians against Christians - that dated from the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1976. A Preventative Measure
It was to prevent such bloody incidents, according to Mr. Salam, a key figure in the talks, that the Moslem and Palestinian representatives insisted that United States, Italian and French troops be deployed in West Beirut until the Lebanese Army was prepared to take over the enforcement of law and order.
Mr. Salam said that this was ''precisely why we asked, and received, assurances from the United States that the Israelis would not enter West Beirut.''