"They do not contradict the Israeli version of events."
'Fraid they do – they put the Israelis there and responsible
"It is just an apocryphal story and probably made up."
If you'd bother to read your links you will find the same story repeated from several sources.
"Your very long book is not reliable evidence."
All accredited and well known sources – particularly the Israeli ones.
Short book – bit longer than Peter Rabbit, but there you go!
"You can be certain that no-one else has read it all this far."
You hope!!
Thanks for the NYP link – confirms the book to perfection - more below
They said that the behaviour was due to the culture.
I'll take that as an admission that nobody mentioned a "cultural implant" or "all male Pakistanis" which leaves it as your invention – and absolutely racist.
every single oneof them warned that in no way should any racial/cultural conclusions be drawn from their statements – as did Judges, police officials, researchers...............
"If you challenge that assumption, please state the proportion that you will accept"
Culturally implanted – not a ******* word.
"Don't be so touchy, "
I'll take that as a "no" then Mike.
Jim Carroll

"They do not contradict the Israeli version of events."
'Fraid they do – they put the Israelis there and responsible
"It is just an apocryphal story and probably made up."
If you'd bother to read your links you will find the same story repeated from several sources.
"Your very long book is not reliable evidence."
All accredited and well known sources – particularly the Israeli ones.
Short book – bit longer than Peter Rabbit, but there you go!
"You can be certain that no-one else has read it all this far."
You hope!!
Thanks for the NYP link – confirms the book perfection
They said that the behaviour was due to the culture.
I'll take that as an admission that nobody mentioned a "cultural implant" or "all male Pakistanis" which leaves it as your invention – and absolutely racist.
every single oneof them warned that in no way should any racial/cultural conclusions be drawn from their statements – as did Judges, police officials, researchers...............
"If you challenge that assumption, please state the proportion that you will accept"
Culturally implanted – not a ******* word.
"Don't be so touchy, "
I'll take that as a "no" then Mike.

''Shortly after that we went down to the shelter,'' the doctor said, ''and found that one of the Palestinian nurses down there had been raped repeatedly and then shot.'' He identified her as Intisar Ismail, 19 years old. Two Physicians Are Abducted
Around the same time Friday, two Palestinian doctors at the hospital, one named Sami Katib, were abducted by the militiamen who entered the hospital. A Palestinian patient was kidnapped with them.
At approximately 3:45 P.M., witnesses say, yet another group of militiamen arrived at the Akka Hospital. Their arrival suggested to the Asian doctor that there was very little coordination between these men, especially since they all tended to ask the same question. The militiamen said they wanted to see the nurses. He told the men that the nurses had all fled.
At this point, according to the doctor, the militiamen asked to search the hospital. During the course of their work, they found a photograph of Yasir Arafat in the Asian doctor's room.
''You are a terrorist,'' one of the militiamen said to him. Doctor Pleads for His Life
At that point, the doctor said, he began to beg for his life. He was told to bring the nurses back to the hospital by 7 P.M., or else, the militiamen said, they would blow his head off.
Fortunately for the physician, by about 5 P.M. Friday, an International Red Cross convoy made it to the hospital and evacuated everyone left there. The doctor said that at about 5:30 P.M., as he was leaving the facility for safety, he saw at the southern end of Shatila what he estimated to be 80 to 90 bodies. They had been mixed together with sand and were being pushed by bulldozers.
This area can be seen very clearly with the naked eye from the Kuwaiti Embassy traffic circle - the site of the telescope and binocular-equipped Israeli observation post. Whether the Israelis actually looked down and saw what was happening is unknown. Crisis at Gaza Hospital
At Gaza Hospital, on the other end of the camp, matters were also beginning to unravel Friday morning. Just after dawn a nurse on the eighth floor was shot and killed by a sniper, according to witnesses. At about noon, a woman who was director of the hospital called a meeting of the staff in light of the stories being told by the hundreds of people who were gathered around the facility, and by the wounded who had been brought inside.
Her message was simple: If you are a Palestinian, you would be well advised to run for your life, toward Israeli lines and Hamra Street.
About 20 foreign doctors and nurses and two Palestinian male nurses stayed behind to tend to the 37 patients who could not be moved. Everyone else fled.
Among those who ran were Taleb Alouki, the carpenter from Shatila, and his brother Fawzi. Earlier in the day, they managed to get back into the camp, to the shelter where they had left their neighbors the night before. Outside the shelter they found the bodies of 15 men who had been tied together with a rope, shot and scalped. 500 People Flee the Area
The two brothers ran back to the Gaza Hospital, through the maze of buildings and alleyways that make up the refugee camps. When everyone fled at around noon, they recalled, they and about 400 to 500 other people dashed north, toward Corniche Mazraa, the main boulevard separating West Beirut proper from the Palestinian-controlled southern suburbs.
This was also where the northern Israeli perimeter around the camps was situated. They sought refuge in the Warda al-Yazigi School, just south of Corniche Mazraa. It was by now early Friday afternoon.
Sometime, either in the morning or early afternoon, the precise time cannot be established, a CBS News cameraman was on the perimeter of the Sabra camp, where he filmed a middle-aged Palestinian woman appealing to two Israeli soldiers to stop the killings going on inside the camps. 'Big Boss' Is Informed
Some of this information had clearly filtered up to the Israeli command by this time. According to Mr. Sharon's statement before the Israeli Parliament, at about 11 A.M. Friday the Israeli division commander, Amos Yaron, met with General Drori and ''raised suspicions concerning the method of operation of the Phalangists.'' An Order to Halt Operation
According to Mr. Sharon, General Drori then ordered the Phalangist liaison officer to halt the operation. It is clear from all accounts that by Friday afternoon things did quiet down somewhat in the camps but there were still fires raging and shooting going on, according to people who were on the scene.
What happened next was probably the most controversial decision taken by the Israeli high command, save for sending the Phalangists into the camps in the first place.
At 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon, after General Drori was said by Mr. Sharon to have ordered an end to the operation, he and General Eytan met again with the Phalangists. At that time, Mr. Sharon said, it was ''agreed that all of the Phalangists would leave the refugee camps on Saturday morning.''

An Apparent Contradiction
"I was here throughout the siege" of Beirut, said Tineke Uluf, a 30-year-old Dutch nurse who was working in the Gaza Hospital, "and I never remember the sky being lit up that brightly over the camps.
"It was like a sports stadium lit up for a football game," she recalled. "It started about 7 P.M. and continued late into the night."

"Hirsch Goodman, the military correspondent of The Jersalem Post, reported that he had been shown a cable sent at 11 P.M. Thursday from the head of the Phalangist units in Shatila to the Israeli command in East Beirut.
It said, Mr. Goodman wrote, "To this time we have killed 300 civilians and terrorists."
The cable was immediately distributed in the command and sent to Tel Aviv, he reported."

What happened next was probably the most controversial decision taken by the Israeli high command, save for sending the Phalangists into the camps in the first place.
At 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon, after General Drori was said by Mr. Sharon to have ordered an end to the operation, he and General Eytan met again with the Phalangists. At that time, Mr. Sharon said, it was ''agreed that all of the Phalangists would leave the refugee camps on Saturday morning.''
An Apparent Contradiction
At this point, officials in Lebanon note, there appears to be a serious contradiction in Mr. Sharon's account of what happened. He said the Phalangists were ordered to stop their operations in the camps at 11 A.M. Friday. Yet at 4:30 P.M. they were told that they could stay in the camps until Saturday morning. Repeated efforts to interview General Drori to clarify this point were unsuccessful.
The available evidence suggests that the operation was not halted on Friday, but that it may have been slowed down somewhat. Israeli officers in East Beirut said what happened at the 4:30 Friday meeting was that the Phalangists told the Israelis that they needed more time to ''clean up'' the area.
The Israelis said that instead of moving troops in to stop the militia operation, the Israeli command decided to give those militiamen already in the camp time to finish what they were doing.But at the same time, the Israelis decided to keep additional militiamen from moving into the camp.

SOME PHALANGISTS BEGIN LEAVING
The Israelis said that instead of moving troops in to stop the militia operation, the Israeli command decided to give those militiamen already in the camp time to finish what they were doing.But at the same time, the Israelis decided to keep additional militiamen from moving into the camp. Some Phalangists Begin Leaving
Lebanese Army sources confirmed that by Friday afternoon Phalangist units with trucks and halftracks began moving out of the airport back to their home bases, just as Mr. Sharon said.
Inside the camps, the militiamen already on the scene continued with their work. At some time between 4 P.M. and 5 P.M. Friday a Reuters correspondent, Paul Eedle, spoke to an Israeli colonel at the Kuwaiti intersection and asked him about the operations taking place in the camp.
The colonel, who declined to be identified, told Mr. Eedle that his men were working on the basis of two principles: that the Israeli Army should not get involved, but that the area should be ''purified.'

Sounds of gunfire and explosions could be heard emanating from the northern end of Shatila, witnesses recalled, and they could also be heard by Taleb Alouki and his brother Fawzi. They, along with 400 to 500 other people, had fled from Gaza Hospital in the afternoon when word came that the militiamen were advancing in their direction. They took shelter at the Al-Yazigi school, cowering in courtyards and classrooms.
Some of the Palestinian civilians who tried to flee the camps for the safety of downtown say they were prevented from leaving by the Israelis outside the camps. The following account by the two brothers, was corroborated by the testimony of five other people who were later interviewed separately and independently of each other. Palestinians Decide to Run
On Friday afternoon, with the sound of gunfire seeming to get closer to the school where they were hiding. the Alouki brothers and the others decided to make a run for Corniche Mazraa and the Israeli lines.
The throng, showing a white flag, moved from the school up Rue Mohammed Ali Beyhum to Corniche Mazraa. As they approached the Israeli checkpoint on the main boulevard, kitty-corner to the Barbir Hospital, they were stopped by an Israeli soldier. The soldier, by all accounts, was clearly surprised and probably frightened to see all of these people coming at him.
The soldier shouted in Arabic to the crowd to stay back, then went into crouch position at the corner of a building and aimed his gun at the people, who immediately started shrieking and turned around.

CROWD CHOOSES A SPOKESMAN
The soldier, members of the crowd recalled, then told them to send one person forward to explain what they wanted. A man was chosen and sent to speak to the Israeli.
According to the people, the spokesman told the soldier that Haddad militiamen were slaughtering civilians in the camps and that they were trying to escape.
The Israeli soldier told the spokesman that there was nothing he could do, and added that if they remained in the area, he would open fire.
People began protesting; women started weeping. The Israeli soldier then reportedly fired two volleys into the air to scatter the crowd. At that point, witnesses say, an Israeli tank rolled from Corniche Mazraa onto Rue Mohammed Ali Beyhum and chased the people a few hundred feet back toward the camps. A Witness Corroborates Account
Reporters who went to the intersection last Thursday afternoon found a Lebanese man who lived in a first-floor apartment who said he had seen the entire episode from his balcony. He confirmed the refugees' story without any prompting.
If the refugees' account is true, it would appear that by Friday afternoon the Israeli commanders had given no order to allow civilians fleeing the scene to pass through the perimeter set up around the camps by the Israeli Army.
''If we went one way we ran into the Israelis; if we went the other way we ran into the Haddad men,'' Taleb Alouki said, ''so we all just decided to turn around and hide in the school.''
Almost a week later, they were still there



"Shortly after that we went down to the shelter,'' the doctor said, ''and found that one of the Palestinian nurses down there had been raped repeatedly and then shot." He identified her as Intisar Ismail, 19 years old. Two Physicians Are Abducted
Around the same time Friday, two Palestinian doctors at the hospital, one named Sami Katib, were abducted by the militiamen who entered the hospital. A Palestinian patient was kidnapped with them.
At approximately 3:45 P.M., witnesses say, yet another group of militiamen arrived at the Akka Hospital. Their arrival suggested to the Asian doctor that there was very little coordination between these men, especially since they all tended to ask the same question. The militiamen said they wanted to see the nurses. He told the men that the nurses had all fled.
At this point, according to the doctor, the militiamen asked to search the hospital. During the course of their work, they found a photograph of Yasir Arafat in the Asian doctor's room.
''You are a terrorist,'' one of the militiamen said to him. Doctor Pleads for His Life
At that point, the doctor said, he began to beg for his life. He was told to bring the nurses back to the hospital by 7 P.M., or else, the militiamen said, they would blow his head off.
Fortunately for the physician, by about 5 P.M. Friday, an International Red Cross convoy made it to the hospital and evacuated everyone left there. The doctor said that at about 5:30 P.M., as he was leaving the facility for safety, he saw at the southern end of Shatila what he estimated to be 80 to 90 bodies. They had been mixed together with sand and were being pushed by bulldozers.
This area can be seen very clearly with the naked eye from the Kuwaiti Embassy traffic circle - the site of the telescope and binocular-equipped Israeli observation post. Whether the Israelis actually looked down and saw what was happening is unknown. Crisis at Gaza Hospital
At Gaza Hospital, on the other end of the camp, matters were also beginning to unravel Friday morning. Just after dawn a nurse on the eighth floor was shot and killed by a sniper, according to witnesses. At about noon, a woman who was director of the hospital called a meeting of the staff in light of the stories being told by the hundreds of people who were gathered around the facility, and by the wounded who had been brought inside.
Her message was simple: If you are a Palestinian, you would be well advised to run for your life, toward Israeli lines and Hamra Street.
About 20 foreign doctors and nurses and two Palestinian male nurses stayed behind to tend to the 37 patients who could not be moved. Everyone else fled.
Among those who ran were Taleb Alouki, the carpenter from Shatila, and his brother Fawzi. Earlier in the day, they managed to get back into the camp, to the shelter where they had left their neighbors the night before. Outside the shelter they found the bodies of 15 men who had been tied together with a rope, shot and scalped. 500 People Flee the Area
The two brothers ran back to the Gaza Hospital, through the maze of buildings and alleyways that make up the refugee camps. When everyone fled at around noon, they recalled, they and about 400 to 500 other people dashed north, toward Corniche Mazraa, the main boulevard separating West Beirut proper from the Palestinian-controlled southern suburbs.
This was also where the northern Israeli perimeter around the camps was situated. They sought refuge in the Warda al-Yazigi School, just south of Corniche Mazraa. It was by now early Friday afternoon.
Sometime, either in the morning or early afternoon, the precise time cannot be established, a CBS News cameraman was on the perimeter of the Sabra camp, where he filmed a middle-aged Palestinian woman appealing to two Israeli soldiers to stop the killings going on inside the camps. 'Big Boss' Is Informed
Some of this information had clearly filtered up to the Israeli command by this time. According to Mr. Sharon's statement before the Israeli Parliament, at about 11 A.M. Friday the Israeli division commander, Amos Yaron, met with General Drori and ''raised suspicions concerning the method of operation of the Phalangists.'' An Order to Halt Operation
According to Mr. Sharon, General Drori then ordered the Phalangist liaison officer to halt the operation. It is clear from all accounts that by Friday afternoon things did quiet down somewhat in the camps but there were still fires raging and shooting going on, according to people who were on the scene.
What happened next was probably the most controversial decision taken by the Israeli high command, save for sending the Phalangists into the camps in the first place.
At 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon, after General Drori was said by Mr. Sharon to have ordered an end to the operation, he and General Eytan met again with the Phalangists. At that time, Mr. Sharon said, it was ''agreed that all of the Phalangists would leave the refugee camps on Saturday morning.''

An Apparent Contradiction
"I was here throughout the siege" of Beirut, said Tineke Uluf, a 30-year-old Dutch nurse who was working in the Gaza Hospital, "and I never remember the sky being lit up that brightly over the camps.
"It was like a sports stadium lit up for a football game," she recalled. "It started about 7 P.M. and continued late into the night."

"Hirsch Goodman, the military correspondent of The Jersalem Post, reported that he had been shown a cable sent at 11 P.M. Thursday from the head of the Phalangist units in Shatila to the Israeli command in East Beirut.
It said, Mr. Goodman wrote, "To this time we have killed 300 civilians and terrorists."
The cable was immediately distributed in the command and sent to Tel Aviv, he reported."

What happened next was probably the most controversial decision taken by the Israeli high command, save for sending the Phalangists into the camps in the first place.
At 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon, after General Drori was said by Mr. Sharon to have ordered an end to the operation, he and General Eytan met again with the Phalangists. At that time, Mr. Sharon said, it was ''agreed that all of the Phalangists would leave the refugee camps on Saturday morning.''
An Apparent Contradiction
At this point, officials in Lebanon note, there appears to be a serious contradiction in Mr. Sharon's account of what happened. He said the Phalangists were ordered to stop their operations in the camps at 11 A.M. Friday. Yet at 4:30 P.M. they were told that they could stay in the camps until Saturday morning. Repeated efforts to interview General Drori to clarify this point were unsuccessful.
The available evidence suggests that the operation was not halted on Friday, but that it may have been slowed down somewhat. Israeli officers in East Beirut said what happened at the 4:30 Friday meeting was that the Phalangists told the Israelis that they needed more time to ''clean up'' the area.
The Israelis said that instead of moving troops in to stop the militia operation, the Israeli command decided to give those militiamen already in the camp time to finish what they were doing.But at the same time, the Israelis decided to keep additional militiamen from moving into the camp.

SOME PHALANGISTS BEGIN LEAVING
The Israelis said that instead of moving troops in to stop the militia operation, the Israeli command decided to give those militiamen already in the camp time to finish what they were doing.But at the same time, the Israelis decided to keep additional militiamen from moving into the camp. Some Phalangists Begin Leaving
Lebanese Army sources confirmed that by Friday afternoon Phalangist units with trucks and halftracks began moving out of the airport back to their home bases, just as Mr. Sharon said.
Inside the camps, the militiamen already on the scene continued with their work. At some time between 4 P.M. and 5 P.M. Friday a Reuters correspondent, Paul Eedle, spoke to an Israeli colonel at the Kuwaiti intersection and asked him about the operations taking place in the camp.
The colonel, who declined to be identified, told Mr. Eedle that his men were working on the basis of two principles: that the Israeli Army should not get involved, but that the area should be ''purified.'

Sounds of gunfire and explosions could be heard emanating from the northern end of Shatila, witnesses recalled, and they could also be heard by Taleb Alouki and his brother Fawzi. They, along with 400 to 500 other people, had fled from Gaza Hospital in the afternoon when word came that the militiamen were advancing in their direction. They took shelter at the Al-Yazigi school, cowering in courtyards and classrooms.
Some of the Palestinian civilians who tried to flee the camps for the safety of downtown say they were prevented from leaving by the Israelis outside the camps. The following account by the two brothers, was corroborated by the testimony of five other people who were later interviewed separately and independently of each other. Palestinians Decide to Run
On Friday afternoon, with the sound of gunfire seeming to get closer to the school where they were hiding. the Alouki brothers and the others decided to make a run for Corniche Mazraa and the Israeli lines.
The throng, showing a white flag, moved from the school up Rue Mohammed Ali Beyhum to Corniche Mazraa. As they approached the Israeli checkpoint on the main boulevard, kitty-corner to the Barbir Hospital, they were stopped by an Israeli soldier. The soldier, by all accounts, was clearly surprised and probably frightened to see all of these people coming at him.
The soldier shouted in Arabic to the crowd to stay back, then went into crouch position at the corner of a building and aimed his gun at the people, who immediately started shrieking and turned around.

CROWD CHOOSES A SPOKESMAN
The soldier, members of the crowd recalled, then told them to send one person forward to explain what they wanted. A man was chosen and sent to speak to the Israeli.
According to the people, the spokesman told the soldier that Haddad militiamen were slaughtering civilians in the camps and that they were trying to escape.
The Israeli soldier told the spokesman that there was nothing he could do, and added that if they remained in the area, he would open fire.
People began protesting; women started weeping. The Israeli soldier then reportedly fired two volleys into the air to scatter the crowd. At that point, witnesses say, an Israeli tank rolled from Corniche Mazraa onto Rue Mohammed Ali Beyhum and chased the people a few hundred feet back toward the camps. A Witness Corroborates Account
Reporters who went to the intersection last Thursday afternoon found a Lebanese man who lived in a first-floor apartment who said he had seen the entire episode from his balcony. He confirmed the refugees' story without any prompting.
If the refugees' account is true, it would appear that by Friday afternoon the Israeli commanders had given no order to allow civilians fleeing the scene to pass through the perimeter set up around the camps by the Israeli Army.
''If we went one way we ran into the Israelis; if we went the other way we ran into the Haddad men,'' Taleb Alouki said, ''so we all just decided to turn around and hide in the school.''
Almost a week later, they were still there