""The three Clinton vetoes brought to 32 the number Washington has cast to protect Israel."
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/p-neff-veto.html""

Thirty two US vetoes and Keith called me a liar when I said there were any. I guess it's now obvious which of us is a liar (if it wasn't already blindingly obvious).
______________________________________________________________________

""Had there been none, it would still have been reasonable to go in and check.""

So you would say that the phalangists checked all those civilians to death?
______________________________________________________________________

""All the motions were proposed by nasty Islamic Republics and
vicious little dictatorships who outnumber the decent democracies,""

And there, the veneer having slipped, we see the real nasty little Islamophobe.
______________________________________________________________________

""Proper democracies, with a free and informed press and media, know that all the ant-Israel shit is just that.

The lies you peddle are recognised as just that, outside your little bubble of bigots.""

See the above comment! He'd be a wow at the White Supremacists' Convention.
______________________________________________________________________

""Eyewitness statements ARE NOT VALID EVIDENCE, according to DonT.""

Don't be any more of a fuckwit than you can help BB, you know damn well that is a misquote of what I said.

One unsupported eye witness statement is evidence but proves nothing in court.

You need at least two for it to be proof.

Added to which I most certainly was not referring to the Sabra/Shatila eye witnesses.

There are more than enough of them for proof, if we could only get past the fundamentalist pro Israelis who shout everyone else down (or try to).
______________________________________________________________________
""I make up nothing.
I can substantiate everything and keep offering to.

You know this, so you can only repeat the lie.""

DON'T OFFER! Bloody well do it. Otherwise it's just empty bluster.

Yuo CAN'T substantiate any of it. You can only repeat and repeat the output of the Israeli propaganda machine.

Not enough.

I ask you to comment on the Bedouins who have been uprooted three times, and in spite of being told that the third place was permanent, now face a fourth upheaval, and you respond with waffle about trade with Australia

BLOODY IRRELEVANT!

So yes SUBSTANTIATE or shut up.
______________________________________________________________________

""Israel Zamir, the son of Nobel Prize-winner Isaac Bashevis-Singer, wrote: "Until this day, the word 'pogrom' had a connotation which directly concerned us, Jews, as victims. Prime Minister Begin has 'extended' the scope of the term: there was Babi-Yar, Lidice, Oradour, and now there is Sabra and Shatila." ""

This should be printed in two foot high type, and permanently displayed in the Parliament chambers of all Western countries which turn a blind eye to Israel's expansionism.
______________________________________________________________________

""A debate can be won or lost, and you lose.""

First it is necessary to debate the issue, and if and when you ever actually do that, then and only then will you have a small chance of claiming victory and a much larger chance of admitting defeat.

I look forard to it as an unlikely pleasure.
______________________________________________________________________

"" -snip-"By that evening, the heavy artillery had ceased. Only the sound of light artillery and gunshots could be heard."-snip-"" from Siegel

""...-snip-Despite what she says here, I would have expected firing during the illumination.
The flares were fired for a purpose, but not for a massacre.-snip-
"" from Keith A.

Do you ever read the posts to which you respond, usually negatively?

""artillery and gunshots""

""The three Clinton vetoes brought to 32 the number Washington has cast to protect Israel."
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/p-neff-veto.html""

Thirty two US vetoes and Keith called me a liar when I said there were any. I guess it's now obvious which of us is a liar (if it wasn't already blindingly obvious).
______________________________________________________________________

""Had there been none, it would still have been reasonable to go in and check.""

So you would say that the phalangists checked all those civilians to death?
______________________________________________________________________

""All the motions were proposed by nasty Islamic Republics and
vicious little dictatorships who outnumber the decent democracies,""

And there, the veneer having slipped, we see the real nasty little Islamophobe.
______________________________________________________________________

""Proper democracies, with a free and informed press and media, know that all the ant-Israel shit is just that.

The lies you peddle are recognised as just that, outside your little bubble of bigots.""

See the above comment! He'd be a wow at the White Supremacists' Convention.
______________________________________________________________________

""Eyewitness statements ARE NOT VALID EVIDENCE, according to DonT.""

Don't be any more of a fuckwit than you can help BB, you know damn well that is a misquote of what I said.

One unsupported eye witness statement is evidence but proves nothing in court.

You need at least two for it to be proof.

Added to which I most certainly was not referring to the Sabra/Shatila eye witnesses.

There are more than enough of them for proof, if we could only get past the fundamentalist pro Israelis who shout everyone else down (or try to).
______________________________________________________________________

""I make up nothing.
I can substantiate everything and keep offering to.

You know this, so you can only repeat the lie.""

DON'T OFFER! Bloody well do it. Otherwise it's just empty bluster.

You CAN'T substantiate any of it. You can only repeat and repeat the output of the Israeli propaganda machine.

Not enough.

I ask you to comment on the Bedouins who have been uprooted three times, and in spite of being told that the third place was permanent, now face a fourth upheaval, and you respond with waffle about trade with Australia

BLOODY IRRELEVANT!

So yes SUBSTANTIATE or shut up.
______________________________________________________________________

""Israel Zamir, the son of Nobel Prize-winner Isaac Bashevis-Singer, wrote: "Until this day, the word 'pogrom' had a connotation which directly concerned us, Jews, as victims. Prime Minister Begin has 'extended' the scope of the term: there was Babi-Yar, Lidice, Oradour, and now there is Sabra and Shatila." ""

This should be printed in two foot high type, and permanently displayed in the Parliament chambers of all Western countries which turn a blind eye to Israel's expansionism.
______________________________________________________________________

""A debate can be won or lost, and you lose.""

First it is necessary to debate the issue, and if and when you ever actually do that, then and only then will you have a small chance of claiming victory and a much larger chance of admitting defeat.

I look forard to it as an unlikely pleasure.
______________________________________________________________________

"" -snip-"By that evening, the heavy artillery had ceased. Only the sound of light artillery and gunshots could be heard."-snip-"" from Siegel

""...-snip-Despite what she says here, I would have expected firing during the illumination.
The flares were fired for a purpose, but not for a massacre.-snip-
"" from Keith A.

Do you ever read the posts to which you respond, usually negatively?

""artillery and gunshots""

Could that be the firing you expected, or do you simply not know that gunshots = firing?

The light artillery didn't follow the flares, that is how flares are delivered, but when it is constant a layman could well get the idea that it followed.
______________________________________________________________________

""You always try to change the subject.""

Says Keith A, who has introduced Australia, Finland and Denmark and others to this thread.
______________________________________________________________________

""For almost 48 hours, from September 16th to the 18th, I attempted to save the lives of those who were brought to the hospital. Many had severe wounds from being shot at close range. I cared for hundreds of terrified refugees seeking the safety of the hospital. I tried to comprehend the throat-slitting gesture the women made. . I WATCHED FROM A TOP FLOOR OF THE HOSPITAL AS FLARES WERE SHOT IN THE AIR. THE FLARES ILLUMINATED AREAS OF THE CAMP; THE SOUND OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE FOLLOWED EACH ILLUMINATION."""

This Keith, contradicts every single thing you have said about Ellen Siegel.

Do you think a nurse wouldn't recognise short range gunshot wounds and wouldn't know that the victims were civilians?
______________________________________________________________________

""We never make up anything and even if we were liars, have no need to.""

Who is "WE", you and Israel?

Pull the other one.
______________________________________________________________________

If you can't refute the evidence smear the witness.

That is even lower than the lowest I thought you would go.
______________________________________________________________________

""Bigotry, and a hate fueled prejudice against the Israeli people.""

Once again Keith, you cannot resist lying.

Nobody, but NOBODY on this thread is prejudiced against the Israeli people.

The ultra xenophobic government of Israel is our target, along with its self willed and merciless so-called "Defence Force"

It has turned the Gaza strip into an open concentration camp and is incrementally stealing the West Bank.

It responds to sticks and stones with rifle fire, to unguided rockets with total destruction and while it may not be using cluster munitions any more, it is making no effort to assist in their removal, preferring to let Arab children do the clearing at the cost of a leg, or worse.

Have I missed anything?....I'm sure there's quite a bit more.

Don T.