Joe, I have to disagree that no one attacks atheists around here. Pete, certainly, and Ron Davies every chance he gets. Olddude, too. And all these recent threads of Jack's have been pointed attacks. I also see a lot of the lack of tolerance and acceptance for religious belief that you have noted, but do you really think the atheist crowd starts talking about religion out of the blue? Isn't it usually in response to something? The things I dislike the most about the atheist attacks are that some of us apparently expect you and Jack and a few others to defend any and all Christian dogma and policy, and to carry the weight of every bad thing that has been done in the name of religion throughout history. A really foolish expectation.

I think one of the things you've been trying to get across, and which is very obvious to anyone who has Christian friends, is that Christianity happens in the individual, and most of the time causes them to concentrate on being better people. Unfortunately, it also seems to drive some individuals to intolerance and a desire to control other peoples' lives. Christianity also happens on the level of huge bureaucratic money-machines headed by power seekers that go about doing evil things. Many non-religious huge bureaucratic money-machines headed by power seekers go about doing evil things as well, which makes me thing the problem isn't necessarily caused by the religion. The point is that the two versions of Christianity don't really seem to have a lot of impact on each other, and attacking individuals for the sins of the organization is not only misdirected but almost certain to make the individuals hurt and angry.

But I see just as many or more blithe but offensive assumptions being made about atheists. The tragic part is that I think many Christians are unaware of how offensive they are being, as if they've never stepped outside their assumption that Christianity is the only viable way of living long enough to see how smug and superior they seem to others. I'm not talking about you, Joe, of course. You are almost always astonishingly level-headed and fair. I think it must be that attitude of acceptance of others you display as strongly as you display your faith and how it works in your life.

I agree, why can't we just get along? I'd love to have a discussion with a believer where we talk about the actual beliefs held by the individual and the reasons for them. I'd like to explore how a Christian goes about selecting which of the beliefs to hold and which to call metaphor. I'd like to explore the nature of belief itself, where and why it arises in a person. I'd like to deconstruct the symbolism contained in the Catholic mass from the point of view of Eastern meditation philosophy and whether or not there is an experience that the symbols describe. I'd like to talk about the religious experience of bliss and how it relates to blissful states of mind described by other religions and cultures. I'd like to compare and contrast prayer with Wiccan spell-casting. And I'd like to do it all without being put down for being an atheist, without science being expected to provide philosophical answers, and without anyone in the conversation being blamed for the Spanish Inquisition or rapist priests.