frogprince, I've always had problems with this concept. That a man (and all parties agree that Jesus was a human being as well as God's Son) who lived an exemplary life should be tortured in such a barbaric way 'for us' has never been possible for me to take in. It isn't just the Fundamentalists who subscribe to this , it's any Christian group, and certainly, the Church of England. To me it stems from the old Jewish idea of making sacrifices (eg slaughtering sheep and burning cattle as offerings in the Temple etc, not to mention Isaac, another ghastly event of a chap prepared to put his son to death to please God) Even very primitive religions had a sacrificial basis for showing their God/s they were prepared to give anything. I wonder why this 'loving' God couldn't have thought of another way to 'save' us. And why then? Presumably people had been waiting around in Hell for millennia. Logically, Atonement should come from the sinner him/herself. eg 'I'm sorry I did wrong and I'd like to put things right'. So the concept is, before Jesus died, no matter how sorry you were, God chucked you into Hell nonetheless? Bizarre and incomprehensible to me. But then. I'm not too bright on Religion and have many many doubts!