The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #136372   Message #3563920
Posted By: Jim Carroll
03-Oct-13 - 08:33 AM
Thread Name: BS: Christian Persecution
Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
You have now entered your mindlessly repetitive mode - I would suggest you carefully examine the Vatican pronouncements (not too much care needed - it's obvious enough bur anybody who cares to find it).
The Vatican (the head of the Christian Church in all Catholic Churches in the world) deliberately covered up the sexual abuse of children and allowed it to go no for decades - they continue to refuse access to many of the documents - exactly where do you think the blame for this lies - the children who were abused, their parents, the authourities, weak government..... ????
I think you have now said enough to make any conversation with you unnecessary - your crude defence of the continuing of the leading Christian Church in the world.
There is no comparison to what happened in Italy and the situation in Ireland
I suggest you read the full article article rather than taking your usual rout of blaming the people for the crimes of the government and the church (if you don't find it too difficult and "boring" that is!!
Now go away.
Jim Carroll

Abortion in Italy
Lesley Caldwell was born in Australia and came to England in 1967. She is currently completing a Ph.D. on changes in family legislation in Italy. The gathering of information on abortion was made possible by a research grant from the Central Research Fund of London University.
Lesley Caldwell
The passing of a law legalizing abortion in Italy was the parliamentary solution to a situation of illegality of scandalous proportions. The law, one of the most advanced in Western Europel was the result of a hard fought battle, a compromise solution won after six years of bargaining, delays and mass mobilization. The extreme discrepancy between the previous law on abortion and the reality of women's lives (estimates of three million illegal abortions a year were common) led to a campaign to change the law; it also led to extensive examination of what abortion means and what, as feminists we are asking-in terms of what is possible and what the limits are-when we demand and win rights through legislation. The range of the abortion debate in Italy and the extent of issues recognized as requiring discussion and analysis is striking compared with the English situation. Until the most recent attack on the 1967 Act, the debate around abortion in Britain has primarily stressed the class basis for the need to gain and retain abortion rights from the state. This stress has led to an apparent clarity about what abortion means and how it is lived that seems at variance with the confusion many women feel. While some groups obviously have tackled these questions, those aspects that most readily lend themselves to mobilization have predominated. A reluctance to take on areas seen as unpopular or difficult has been particularly noticeable on the English left. The Italian experience offers us a very different situation, one from which we may profitably continue to discuss the complexity of abortion as an issue for feminists.
The Church Much of the explanation lies in the position of the Catholic Church in Italy. The power and strength of the Vatican and of the organized church is exerted in economic and political terms but it is also exercised at a more local level through its strength in the provision of social services and in neighbourhood organizations. The Italian state has not a 'welfare state' type programme of assistance and the church has filled many of the gaps by its interest in, and responsibility for the provision of services like nurseries, care of the aged, hospitals, clinics etc, all of which have considerable effect on people's lives in their families and homes. It is this interest which has been of particular importance in contributing to maintaining Catholic attitudes to the family and to sexuality. The church's statements on sexuality and the family represent the most significant proportion of its public statements to the faithful. It is a central doctrinal area and one through which the church is intent on reinforcing and extending its control. Its position is that marriage exists primarily for the procreation and education of children, it is a serious liaison and as such cannot be dissolved; sex is a potentially dangerous capacity which may only be used under certain conditions and even within marriage (the fundamental condition) there must be limits on its use. The primary aim of sexual encounters-the possibility of procreation-means that any form of contraception other than a 'natural' one (i.e. the rhythm method or abstinence) is forbidden. Abortion involves the destruction of human life and can never be accepted regardless of the difficulties this position imposes.
http://www.palgrave-journals.com/fr/journal/v7/n1/full/fr19814a.html