pete,7*s

An interesting thought related to lies, religion and the lack of religious beliefs.(Note that I raise this thought as, IMO, it relates to your earlier premise about values (lies), followers of religion and Atheists).

Joe Offer has stated in a number of threads that many RC's ignore many aspects of the RC church, those which they have disagreement.

So, if one belongs to a church, is it not a morality-related issue when one "picks and chooses" and ignores important aspects you agree/disagree with?

I am not saying these folks are "telling lies" - "but". I suspect making a mistake one time is one thing which RC "confession" could fix. But, making it on a regular basis as part of your life (by rejecting it totally) seems to be "sketchy morality" (IMO).

For example, rejection of "the pope's clear direction" to not use birth control seems (to me)like rejecting a core aspect of the RC church. However, "if many" RC's choose to ignore it, and use birth control (against a directive) - does this place these believers on a higher moral order than those who have no religious beliefs? Ignoring directions of the head of this church "the Pope" (which this religion seems to closely links to God) seems like a perplexing moral issue to me.

Don't get me wrong, I am not disrespecting the choice of RC's to ignore (or reason away) anything they wish about the RC church. However, this seems to go against your earlier statement about religious folks, lies (related to morality) and those who say they have no religious beliefs. Just putting this forward for your consideration.