So Cilla thought the original 'Liverpool Lullaby' was advocating child cruelty! That's truly bizarre. I suppose there's show-biz and then there's the real world, and never the twain shall meet.

Actually, I was fortunate to share a picnic with Stan Kelly (and Bill and Lynne Leader, and Stan's daughter, Michele Coxon, an artist and children's book author) in the garden of Stan and Michele's place in Oswestry in May, and I had the Zoom recorder going to capture the conversation and crack. Michele demonstrated just what a chip off the old block she is with some scintillating table-talk. Some of it is apropos to the discussion. Let's see (two conversations were taking place simultaneously) …

(extract begins…)

Michele: I didn't know you can tell a bat from its droppings.

Stan: I get emails of people saying they brought their kids up on 'Liverpool Lullaby' and so on, so that's very nice.

Michele: What do bats live in?

Lynne: Belfries?

Stan: But there was also a letter in the Echo a few years back saying, what a terrible stereotype of Liverpool fathers beating up their children. It's like the new health and safety rules, isn't it?

Michele: Do bats have a collective noun? Like badgers have sets?

Stan: How anyone could assume that I was encouraging… I never hit my children…

Michele: A roost. I think it might be that.

Stan: Did I Michele?

Michele: What?

Stan: I never hit my children?

Michele: No.

Stan: Ever?

Michele: No never. Dad, what's the place where bats live? Does anybody know?

(end of extract)