Steve Shaw, thanks for asking.

As I said, it is the responses I find depressing, not the OP. I enjoyed Mick's post and side with him in it. I know he wouldn't have posted that unless strongly moved by what is going on here.

Almost immediately the attacks on Mick and his ideas started. It doesn't feel like banter to me, and why does 'honest comment' have to be so unpleasant? It is possible to accept that others have opposing views to your own, while respecting their right to express them.

I love an intelligent debate, but I strongly object to the unkindness and abuse which others here obviously take to be 'banter and honest comment'.

And no, DtG, I will not 'Lighten up'. I feel a great affection for this place, the people who started it and the lovely people I have met through it, both online and in real life. I will not just roll over and accept that the bullies can take it over and make it into something nasty, as Jeri succinctly described.

I have no doubt that worse nastiness exists in the world, but I don't choose to spend my limited free time wallowing in it.

If I was in a music venue / pub / any social gathering where someone came out with the sort of comments which appear even above the line here these days, I would find a more pleasant place to spend my time.