If you want an example of decent discussion, go to the "BS: Shh.. Don't let them hear you.. " thread and begin reading with Joe Offer's post of 03 April at 04:19 AM. Note how Joe, for,the most part, responds with respect and attempts to keep the discussion on the issues at hand. He does it despite the provocations laid out. Note how certain provocateurs continue to try and make it about people instead of ideas. I agree with Joe, for example, about ake. I think he is as wrong as he can be with his views on homosexuality, but he tries to express them based on his belief system.