Lots of musicians, myself included, tried to make a living playing traditional folk music and found that it forced me to play music I don't like to people I didn't want to play for in dreadful situations. It required being on tour half the year and I'm a home body. It forced me to play weddings, which were OK for a while but didn't want the music I love to play. It forced me to teach music, which I found frustrating because of the lack of commitment on the part of most students. And, while I was making a lot of money in comparison to other folk musicians, I was still making a poverty-level wage. Why should I give up a day job I like in order to work full time doing things I don't like for a lot less money?

As soon as you're not making a full time living playing music, the question of pay becomes much less important. I don't play for pubs or restaurants without getting well paid, unless they don't usually have music and I am helping to convince them of the joys of becoming a new music venue. I don't play corporate events at all. If I'm playing for a general non-music festival as opposed to a folk music festival, I get paid. Beyond that, I play where I want to play without worrying about the money -- I have a job that takes care of that, and, as I said, I don't want a full time job playing music.

Folk music is, at it's heart, community music. It is people in the community, experienced pros as well as beginning amateurs, getting together to play music within the community. I play for a lot of folk dances. Most of them pay a small amount, but I am well aware of their financial realities and would never dream of making a living from them. I do need to eat and keep a roof over my head and most gigs don't come close to providing that. I play because I enjoy sharing my skills with my community. I really like standing in a corner playing music and watching a lot of people dancing, experiencing the communication vibe that takes place between the musician and the dancers. I also really like playing concerts and feeling the similar vibe from the audience. Most of the places that want my kind of music in a concert have me there because they also love the music and are willing to work hard and spend their own money to help bring that music to audiences.

No one in the traditional music world, even the top-tier performers and the major festival organizers, are getting rich. A very few are able to make a decent living and the rest of the full-time pros live in abject poverty and work way too hard to do so.

Lizzie, perhaps you should investigate the idea that folk music is community music and that professional music making is much less so. Getting paid for playing traditional music isn't very traditional, eh?

Conversely, you could convince as many people to show up to see me play traditional music as what show up to see major pop acts and we might be having a very different conversation. Provide the paying audience, Lizzie, if you want all folk musicians to make a living playing folk music.

I'd also like to point out that you started this thread with a preconceived notion of the rat-like nature of the people organizing a folk festival. You came on a public international forum and started bad-mouthing them without having first taken your concerns to them and listening to what they had to say. People who act like you're acting here are a much bigger offense to me than festival organizers who I'm know for a fact (having been one myself) spend way too much of their own money and time in order to make something happen. Perhaps you should organize a festival yourself, or at least become conversant with the realities of the situation before you start publicly insulting people.

That's it, Lizzie: organize a festival. My rates are $2000 or equivalent pounds per show. Cough up the money, please.

John P