And is a country also judged on how it treats its law-abiding old people? I am not so cruel as to want prisoners to be denied healthcare, Musket. But the rest of us pay, a lot, for dentistry. I have seen several prisoners trundling down to the WRVS shop in the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital (where I also did voluntary work, among my many activities!) chained by one wrist to an officer, and not in the least embarrassed. They certainly didn't particularly want to hide in a private room. The therapy they were offered (massage, crystal healing, whatever that is, counselling etc) the rest of us would have to pay pay for. I certainly can't afford Sky TV. Did you know that a prisoner is allowed a money account, and can have over a hundred pounds in it? He can spend this on mail order goods, yet cannot be asked to pay for any services he receives in prison. I was as kindly-disposed towards prisoners as the next person to start with. That's why I took on the Visiting work. But my many years and many prisons merely opened my eyes at to the kind of people these men really were. To me, they should be given the barest minimum of resources and not cossetted. A great number are quite evil, dangerous and bad.