The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #154376   Message #3629914
Posted By: Teribus
03-Jun-14 - 08:02 AM
Thread Name: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
"Well, Teribus, your rant on Hamas, ironically, displays the very reason why sensible talks (by sensible I mean meaningful) are urgent and vital, and that will not happen until the US imposes strict conditionality on its military aid to Israel. I believe that, once that is done, Hamas will readily agree to cease hostilities (don't you think that their accommodation with Fatah is a bit more than baby steps in the right direction?) and that meaningful talks could take place.

Now exactly how would the USA imposing conditions on its military aid to Israel (Which by the way I think you exaggerate the importance of) prompt Hamas to cease hostilities against Israel? I mean they have "ceased" hostilities many times in the past only to resume them whenever a suitable target of opportunity comes along (What was the deal they signed up to when Israel withdrew from Gaza again Steve? Did Hamas live up to their end of the bargain?)

The Hamas "accommodation" with Fatah. Does that extend to Hamas allowing Fatah candidates to stand for election in Gaza? Their accommodation is borne from necessity and survival, it has got nothing whatsoever to do with any peace plan.

Until Hamas and Fatah both come out with the clear unequivocal statement supporting the right of existence for the Sovereign State of Israel and the right of its people to live their lives in peace free from attack or threat of attack there will never be any meaningful talks - Hamas in their charter state that such talks are a waste of time now that is hardly Israel's fault is it?

By the way why has it got to be the USA imposing conditions on Israel, why not the International Community imposing conditions on how the Palestinians spend the millions they receive in aid?

"Meaningful in this context means that each side has a lot to lose by failing to compromise."

Care to tell me what either Hamas or Fatah have compromised on?

"At present, the Israel regime never has anything to lose no matter how horridly it behaves. I have little time for Hamas, who are indeed an obstacle to peace, but far greater obstacles are the theft of the best Palestinian land, Israel's legendary murderous bellicosity and the repression of Palestinian people in Gaza."

So far the Israelis have reached agreements with the Egyptians, the Jordanians and a sort of semi-agreement with the Palestinian Authority - all have held, all have been lived up to. Not however with Hamas, because Hamas seek Israel's destruction and they will never compromise on that aim - so yes Hamas ARE an obstacle to peace, they are the greatest obstacle to peace. When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza peace would have followed had Hamas done anything about the rocket attacks, they didn't and Israel, quite rightly reacted.

"The biggest of all obstacles to peace, though, are people like you and Netanyahu who have been duped into believing that there is no need to talk."

Not no need to talk, more like no point in talking to reach an agreement that will be ignored by one side.

1947 - They were offered peace and more land than they are arguing for now and they refused it.
1956 - They were offered peace and more land than they are arguing for now and they refused it.
1967 - They were offered peace and the land they are arguing for now and they refused it (The Three NO's of the Khartoum Declaration 1967 - "No peace with Israel, No recognition of Israel, No negotiations with Israel")
1973 - Etc, etc., and on down to the present day.

They have had 67 years to sort this out - be done with it and next time let them fight it out to the finish.