The problem is, ake, there are several views on how a discussion about constructing a civilised society should be conducted.

Like educating children, electing leaders, staffing an army... or even simple things like caring for a garden... there are far more ways of "doing it wrong" than doing it right (i.e.achieving a result that follows your intent.) The debates often get confused over both defining a sane intent and finding practical ways to achieve that intent.

I recently started that thread about "very hard things to do', and people made a few remarks about some of them- but no one seems to have gotten in to perhaps the hardest of all: )Being able to separate your rationality from your personality.

All too often people cannot really tell you exactly why they HAVE an opinion(part of their **personality**)... and it is a VERY hard thing to do to work out thru their childhood, their experiences, their peer groups...etc. etc.. how they came to an opinion...but once 'set' in their heads, they will adjust their **rationality** to defend it. "My mind's made up- don't confuse me with facts!" You get two people with different opinions nose-to-nose and they resort to "dueling facts" for awhile, then to "dueling insults" when facts fail.. as they usually do.

Everyone kinda knows that there are rules for sane, logical arguments, but those rules are long and complex and hard to remember in detail... and 'rules' are damned inconvenient when they might show YOU are inconsistent, prejudiced, illogical and just plain silly.

So.... debates over how much.. or little... the mods should exercise control over Mudcat gets hung up on "Being able to separate your rationality from your personality." It soon devolves into ^metaarguments and there's no end to it all............thus, someone occasionally points, as SRS did, to the owner's opinion (Max). This is his forum, and he has designated a few people to make some attempt to keep order. Do THEY occasionally get their rationality mixed with their personality? No doubt... as does the President of the US, the Prime Minister of the UK, members of all legislatures, and you own sainted Mother!~ That's how it is... someone has authority in most situations, and we'd all do well to remember that. There are ways to change WHO has authority....but.....hmmmmm.. it seems that those ways are determined by differences in rationality and personality...


ooops