The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155357   Message #3655871
Posted By: Lighter
01-Sep-14 - 12:59 PM
Thread Name: What makes a new song a folk song?
Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
> After all, "cats" are "what people call cats"; they're also definable as small furry quadrupeds distantly related to lions and tigers.

Very true, Phil Edwards. But here's the maddening catch. The word "cat" (and thousands like it) developed naturally to denote an objective reality that no one in his right mind could deny. There *really are* animals whose characteristics you very sketchily suggest, and *really are* in cases like this means "is universal agreement about the distinct existence of."

Now for a little game. If a "cat" is a '50s jazz type, is he or isn't he a "cat"? "Well," I hope you're saying, "obviously not, wiseguy! He's a chap!" Then why call him a cat? If he isn't a cat, what is and how do I know the difference?

Then you repeat your definition of a quadrupedal cat. Fair enough, but how do I know, *out of context,* when a "cat" is an animal and when it's a man?

If context is essential to understanding even a seemingly obvious and well-defined word like "cat" when it's used, how much more essential is it when "folksong" is used?

Unlike "cat," "folksong" *even in context* has no clear-cut, universally accepted, fairly indisputable meaning. The word was coined to convey a particular but rather hazy definition. Since that time so long ago, the intended definition has been enhanced, clarified, expanded, redefined, etc., etc., until not even experts are quite sure what it means to other people, including other experts.

Instead of a word like "cat," think of a word like "democracy" or "novel." You know what you mean when you use it (or do you really?), but can you count on your reader or listener to know what you mean.

I can say, "This is a cat," and get agreement from everyone except a few ingeniously contentious or very crazy people. But I can't get anything like that consensus if I say "Both Sides Now" is - or is not - a folksong.

Was East Germany a democracy? Some seemed to think so. Is the UK or the USA? Some have denied it. If there's disagreement in a given instance, you have to stipulate what you mean, or you talk at cross purposes.

And there's no easy way around it.