The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155459   Message #3657304
Posted By: Teribus
05-Sep-14 - 09:18 AM
Thread Name: BS: scottish independence
Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
1: "Out of the EU: To state this as a fact is an outright lie. "

One hell of a lot more thruth in what I said than in what Alex Salmond stated with regard to "legal advice" on the subject. If I am lying then so was the President of the EU, the last President of EU Commission and a few other EU notables.

2: "The reality is that many significant, informed authorities have expressed their views that there are no sensible reasons for Scotland's over 5 million citizens, who are already EU members, to be required to leave and then have to wait for readmission."

Since when has it been natural to link "sensible" with the EU? By the bye the 5 million you speak of are EU citizens because they are citizens of an EU member state that state being the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - at present there is no such classification as a "Scottish Citizen" - in the UK we are all British Citizens, at least that is what it says in my Passport.

On the 24th March 2016 the United Kingdom will still exist and will still be a EU Member State, the newly independent State of Scotland will not be a member state of the EU and will have to apply for membership, and follow the process as laid down in the Treaty of Lisbon including the criteria governing finance and government institutions.

The greatest stumbling block to Scotland becoming a member of the EU is the unanimous acceptance of Scotland's application by the existing member states - EXCLUDING the UK there are six current EU members that will blackball Scotland's application for purely national interest.

3: Why on earth would NATO wish to accept another "freeloader" jumping on the band wagon? Especially one that comes with strings attached. NATO is essentially a "nuclear alliance", something that Jowly & Co say they want no part of.

4: Oh you'll have a currency no doubt, any one you wish, then after a while maybe even one of your own, then you would be faced with adopting the Euro should you push forward with the plan to join the EU - please don't quote UK opt outs or Sweden those doors were slammed shut long ago - any country wishing to join now MUST adopt the Euro.

The guy who came up with the idea of a common currency (The Euro) was a German and he stipulated that it would only work as part of full political integration. That never happened and it is becoming increasingly doubtful that it ever will. Without that political union the monetary union will continue to lurch from one crisis to the next. The Euro is a long way from being out of the woods yet.

As Jowly says Scotland will use the pound initially {That by the way makes the third change in tack he has made since this fiasco was initiated} but without a formal currency union Scotland will have absolutely no control over that currency. Scotland will have no "Lender Of Last Resort" and off hand I do not know what "native" Bank the Scots will use.

5: What "multinational banks are *already* making to withdraw from London to Ireland in the event of an EU withdrawal." The only banks and financial institutions making contingency plans to move are the ones currently located in Edinburgh.

6: "If Scotland becomes independent, AND remains in the EU, maybe the capital will fly North and not to Ireland after all."

And IF my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle. If Scotland becomes independent Scotland will not be in the EU see 1 above.

7: The number of civil servants working in Scotland in departments servicing the whole of the UK's 63 million population is over 200,000. Nowhere near that number will be required in Scotland to service a population of only 5 million if the numbers are scaled down than requires something like just over 29,000 tops - that makes one hell of a lot of redundancies. Banks, Pension Funds, Asset Management Houses and Insurance companies will all HAVE to relocate to where the bulk of their business comes from under EU law (Edinburgh based Standard Life for instance has 90% of its business in the South). The Royal Bank of Scotland is 83% owned by the UK Treasury - it will be told by it's largest shareholder where it will operate.

8: 80% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK. The second it finds itself outside of the EU everything coming from Scotland automatically becomes more expensive. What would be Scotland's main port? What Ferry links would be opened to assist trade between the rest of Europe and this huge new market consisting of 5 million people?

9: The contract to build the Type 26 Frigates has been deliberately delayed until after the result of the Referendum is known. The UK will not, nor ever has had ships built for the Royal Navy outwith the UK. Orders for the Type 26 number 18 or 20 in addition to those for the Indian Navy will be built under licence in India.

All things are possible Mr. Douglas but if I were you I would look more at what is probable.

Back to currency again. At the last televised debate Alex Salmond stated that he sought a clear mandate from the Scottish People {More accurately the electorate of Scotland} to negotiate with the UK for a currency union covering the use by Scotland of the Pound Sterling. Now if you accept this then it becomes a nonsense, if the Pound Sterling within a Union is what is best for Scotland should someone point out to the Fat Prat and the population of Scotland as he calls them that that is precisely what we already have, and if they wish to have that then the one way to guarantee that is to vote NO?

At the moment Scotland's pensioners equate to 23% of the total population. Their pensions are being paid by the contributions of the working population of a country of 63 million people. Immediately on independence that 23% will have to paid for by a working population in Scotland of 42% of the population. Fast forward that 15 years and then it deteriorates to a pensionable population of 39% being supported by contributions of workers equating to 40% of the population - hope all you want Mr. Douglas, but the reality is that that is unsustainable.