The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155357   Message #3657814
Posted By: TheSnail
06-Sep-14 - 10:36 AM
Thread Name: What makes a new song a folk song?
Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
Jim Carroll
I have conceded nothing.
I have never at any time promoted a'folk-only' club.


You have, for a long time, said that folk clubs should do "what it says on the tin" modified, in this thread, to "exactly what it said on the label". In this thread, you have said "Walk into a folk club and you your probably be told "Piss off, we don't need a definition". When challenged, you produced a list of names that you considered acceptable outside the 1954 definition but denied that it was subjective. Then you turned round and said "I knew that the type of music I was going to hear corresponded to what I thought folk song sounded like". That would work pretty well as an illustration of the meaning of subjective. "What Jim Carroll thinks folk song sounds like" is very unlikely to be written on the tin or label of any folk club. OK, if your name is on the list of organisers, it's there by implication. Equally, if Musket's name (whatever it is) was on the list that would imply that it was whatever he thought folk song sounded like. Your voice carries no more authority than anyone else's.

You say "the two clubs I mentioned were 'The Singers Club' and 'Court Sessions' both of which I helped to run" confirming what said I said the other day "It was on your watch that things went tits up not mine.

Pat rang around several clubs in the South East area
she rang one and asked did they want to book him
Nuff sed.


No, nothing said at all. I seem to remember you saying a while ago that, after Walter had decided that he wasn't going to perform any more, you got pestered by organisers to try and persuade him to do a booking at their clubs. Likewise, over twenty years ago. On your watch. Nothing to do with what is happening now.
I bet Al Whittle has been turned down far more times than Walter Pardon.

I maintained my contact with people whose opinions I respect

Circular argument Jim. You only respect people who share your opinions.

I stopped going to clubs around 14 years ago - by which time the rot had well and truly set in

I have been going to folk clubs for forty years, quite often more than once a week. I'll be going to the one I help organise in a few hours time. On our publicity it says -

Our interest is mainly (but not exclusively) in British traditional music and song and contemporary folk music/song derived from the tradition.

We have booked numerous people within that range over the years including several members of the Critics Group. I presume these people get sufficient bookings elsewhere to make it worthwhile them continuing.

I really have said this on numerous occasions - you don't accept it - tough!.