The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155357   Message #3663461
Posted By: Jim Carroll
24-Sep-14 - 08:28 PM
Thread Name: What makes a new song a folk song?
Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
"I believe you have stated words to the effect of "folk clubs should do what it says on the tin" on several occasions."
Way back I'm afraid - arguments like this have more or less convinced me that the will to "do what it says on the tin" is no longer a possibility.
My reason for entering this discussion in the first place was to respond tho the question " What makes a new song a folk song?"
I really am capable of changing my mind and have more or less done so on the question of whether the folk revival will live up to its commitment to the music whose name it has taken.   
"are you suggesting that the songs aren't worth singing?"
I take it that - somewhere in that camouflage of verbiage (pontification still rules O.K.), the answer is "no"
I have never suggested "keeping the tradition alive" - on the contrary - I have challenged those who claim to be doing so by claiming their own creations are part of a tradition
I find your dismissiveness that " should have died the death long ago," astounding - anything that continues to give pleasure has a function and your condemning them to death because they don't please you is little less than involuntary euthanasia not to say, unbelievably arrogant - especially from someone who doesn't hesitate to use them for his own ends - don't we all get a say in this?
I find your dismissal of the folk repertoire as "pastoral dreaming" equally incredible in it's shallowness - I suggested once that you venture out of your folkie greenhouse - obviously to no avail.
The universality of the themes and the fact that they served for so long as their ownly means of self-expression for working people - right up to the present day for some groups.
Working people no longer have a facility to express their experiences creatively - we have become recipients of our culture rather than part of it.
You once arrogantly sneerily (and characteristically) dismissed the fact that thousands of young people from all walks of life have come to traditional music for the first time and are playing it like old masters - wonder if you'd mind repeating it to save me the trouble of digging it out?).
You sneery (seems to be your fixed expression) at those of us who actually like the songs and have taken the trouble to learn more and pass on what we find as "middle-class hobbyists" again (fifty years as a jobbing electrician in my case, keeping company with house and industrial painters, council workers, builders, farm workers, merchant seamen, factory workers..... all sharing my love of music.
The finest collector of song in Ireland, Tom Munnelly, was a knitting machinist before he was roped in as a collector - his immediate boss, Breandán Breathnach, was the son of a silk weaver who was brought up in The Liberties in Dublin and eventually became civil servant in the Department of agriculture.
They both used to joke over a pint that they were the only ones in their department without a higher education - both of them made their indlible mark on traditional music and will be remembered as long as the music is remembered - not bad for a couple of "middle-class" working men.
Your arrogant dismissal of workers music and those who pursue it exudes middle class armchair dilettantism - a curl of pipe-smoke over the top of the armchair would complete the picture.   
Your dismissive attitude indicates you have no time for folk song - fine, your loss
I respect your right not to, would that a little of that respect is offered to those that do, or, at the very least, we are let get on with it without your middle-class disdain - I got enogh of that from school when I was told by teachers that all I needed to know on leaving was how to check my wage packet on Friday - they were pretty middle-class too.
Jeeze - is that the time?
Jim Carroll