"..., but seems to me that just as creationists presuppose creation , evolutionists presuppose evolution. "

I have tried 17 ways to reply to that basic mistake you make, Pete. "It seems to me..." is sidestepping...or ignoring... or whatever. You ARE using the phrases subjectively, and not in the way they are intended to convey meaning. If a *scientist* (not evolutionist...that is in its self a loaded word which 'sounds' close minded) accepts evolution, it is because he did NOT presuppose it...otherwise he would not be acting as a scientist.


Ok.. the dino prints are merely one example of flawed notions of evidence. I don't have time to go see what you might have referred to.

3) No I don't want science to be imprecise... but if & when they are off, they have ways to remeasure & correct. "Way off" needs specific examples... and how do they know they are way off except by doing the remeasuring & correcting? It is a process to get as accurate as possible. In our dispute, is is really only necessary to continue showing that 'a few thousand years' as the age of the world is WAY, WAY off.


3a)You changed my language, and thus my point. I was refuting the idea that "assertions that disagreement over *detail* by scientists casts doubt on their *overall* conclusions.
there is a reason for carefully phrased 'textbook' definitions and reasoning....else some guy in Seven Stars pub could come along and change the meaning to suit his conclusions ☺. "It seems to me" is STILL not a good answer to anyone except that 'me'.

4a)"why should I accept the illogical idea that everything could begin without a first cause ?" I didn't say you should... I say that it is possible to just not fret about having that issue decided.
What you have is a belief... and I fully understand why someone would prefer that belief. It has a nice ring to it, whether it is fact or not. Your source for that belief is a book... written and copied by men. Believing that it was 'inspired' is still another belief. I assure you it is far easier to just 'believe' in that than to wonder IF it is so, and have debates with others... and with one's self... about the implications.