The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #155997   Message #3676371
Posted By: GUEST,Rahere
11-Nov-14 - 06:37 AM
Thread Name: No man's land protest
Subject: RE: No man's land protest
Teribus,
Your point 3. We are not, as far as I know, actively at war at this moment: our forces have almost entirely drawn down from Afghanistan and are no longer engaged in Iraq, although that may be changing, much as it changed in Vietnam, when advisors found themselves doing rather more than that. Most particularly, we have not been in the kind of war which required a major economic reorientation since WWII. Your point does not therefore hold, it is the exact opposite, what was done then should not be dragged on into the very different society we have now.
Your point 4. Much like Joss Stone, you edited out what I said to suit your own ends, in striking out the Military bit in discussing "bands". That's the same tactic and every whit as dishonest. You continue by reproaching me for not quoting Clausewitz verbatim: it's because I was was posting, not him, and what I had to say indicated that the real world has moved on a lot since then. So kindly stop editing what posters say to suit your case, it's perverting, perverted and disrespectful. Power is the essence of politics, and it can be classified as military, civil, judicial and moral. We do certain things as members of our society because it is part of the moral conditions of the State to do so. If that doesn't rub, we may find we have to answer in Court. In more extreme cases yet, the Riot Sqaud is available, and beyond that, the ultimate justitiars, those who kill (MI being formerly Military Intelligence: 5 & 6 are merely the civilianised survivors of something like 20 Intelligence divisions). Realpolitik means that the tidiness of legal war doesn't always happen, pragmatically: where's the UN mandate for the so-called Islamic State? This is perhaps part of Gorbachev's difficulties, that Putin is a pragmatist and doesn't give a damn about his lawyers and judges. I'm not arguing that we should decline to that level, but do appreciate that power sometimes means you cannot keep your kid gloves clean, for example the entire WMD debate was a massive stupidity, all Blair really needed to do was denounce a political abuse of the ceasfire which ended Gulf War I: doing it that way over-egged the cake. Unless you are prepared to face that reality, you have no way of controlling the iron fist in the velvet glove: I'm not arging we don't need an armed force, what we need to do is ensure it is used poitively and none of this is.