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Thread #105376 Message #3688831
Posted By: Joe Offer
22-Feb-15 - 12:27 AM
Thread Name: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 15 - 07:19 AM
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:09 PM
"Well, we do, Jim. How about Marilyn Monroe " Oh come on Mike - Marilyn Monroe my arseum; no other folk figure is debated as superficially or vituperatively as MacColl . - is so, name them. Jim Carroll. Bob Davenport? Bert Lloyd?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jan 15 - 07:55 AM
Sorry guest, don't follow - Lloyd is criticised by scholars for his questionable scholarship, certainly not for his contribution to the revival as a singer - Daven port, never (except by me maybe). Anybody wishing to hear of MacColl's work can do so through the two programmes, 'Freeborn Man', made by traditional music producer and singer, Paula Carroll for Irish radio's Lyric F.M. Programme 1 will be broadcast this coming Friday at 7pm, programme 2, a week later. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 15 - 08:30 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the programs.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jan 15 - 08:33 AM
You're welcome I'll open a thread giving the full details of them as soon as we have them. We're hoping that Lyric FM can be accessed from the U.K. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 15 - 11:42 AM
MacColl had his failings but he wrote some very good songs and put a lot of thought and effort in to his performances. Probably the best way to remember him is through his songs and performances https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KiBLqfIEWw
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jan 15 - 12:03 PM
"he wrote some very good songs and put a lot of thought and effort in to his performances." Did a bit more than that - the problem is, we never get past the 'Arthur 'two-Sheds' Jackson (why he changed his name) level of discussing MacColl's work - that's what they have been put together to do. Hopefully the Lyric Programmes will redress the balance somewhat. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 18 Jan 15 - 12:47 PM
I've just got round to checking the listing for the Real MacColl and am surprised and disappointed.
First of all the programme is only 30 minutes long, plus it's fronted by John Cooper Clarke.
Who?
Well John Cooper Clarke is a performance poet whose only claim to fame in this respect seems to be that he was born in Salford, (Thinks. Yeahh mate, so were an awful lot of other people.) Hang on though. He did begin his career by doing floor spots in Manchester folk clubs, so I suppose that counts as another qualification. But I can just imagine what MacColl would have said if JCC had turned up at the Singers Club and asked if he could do some of his performance poetry!
More to the point. How on earth do you cram a life like MacColl's into one solitary half hour? How much time do you give to the Red Megaphones, or to Theatre Workshop, or to the plays he wrote, or to the radio ballads, or to the Critics Group, or to the huge number of recordings he made (which BTW includes no less than four multi-volume antholgies of Child Ballads), or to The festival of Fools, or to his collecting work, or to his songwriting? Where on earth are you going to find 30 seconds or so to discuss his poverty stricken upbringing and his Marxism?
Given that this programme is timed to celebrate MacColl's centenary and given McColl's enormous influence in the folk revival, in the theatre, and in broadcasting, surely the BBC could have done the thing properly and devoted a bit more than 30 mintes to his life story? And surely they could have found someone better qualified to front the thing than John Cooper Clarke?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 18 Jan 15 - 03:01 PM
Legacies of Ewan MacColl The Last Interview Price:£65.00 Ashgate ISBN: 978-1-4094-2431-4 Illustrations: Includes 9 b&w illustrations and 2 music examples Published: December 2014 Edited by Allan F. Moore, University of Surrey, UK and Giovanni Vacca
Strongly recommended.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 15 - 03:24 PM
how much!?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 18 Jan 15 - 04:20 PM
Price:£65.00 from Ashgate, the publishers - I think it is cheaper elsewhere - Google it to find out.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Lou Judson Date: 18 Jan 15 - 08:27 PM
A couple of nights ago I did sound for Shay and Michael Black and Celia Ramsay at the Freight and Salvage in Berkeley, and they did several of Ewan's song and spoke of him fondly. I have a friend in Seattle whose parents wer big in the folk and labor scene back in the fifties, so I called him and asked if they had ever had Ewan as a guest in their home, as they had with many other folk singers of the time. They hadn't and I was sad until I found this lovely thread full of stories! Thank you all.
I'm just a sound guy in California, but get to work with some wonderful people (including Peggy once or twice) and hanging in the backgound on Mudcat brings me some very nice things. So thanks again for all the stories, old and new!
Do you know there will be a feature on Ewan on BBC 4 on January 22nd at 11:30 UT? I'll see if I can catch it here online http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ykk4y
and if anyone has links to share of any past programs I would love to hear more!
And this is a really touching piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlJ6P9EkoWw
Enjoy. Lou
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Jan 15 - 08:46 PM
that's a ridiculous price. the weird thing is Ewan and Peggy were always so fair in their pricing policy.
how can it possibly cost all that money to produce that. i think a lot of folk fans would buy this for a tenner. he was afascinating man with an amazing talent, and from very humble origins.
i know Jim gets very tetchy - thinks we should just concentrate on his body of work. but it is fascinating. just how he became |Ewan MacColl - the artist.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Jan 15 - 05:32 AM
"that's a ridiculous price. the weird thing is Ewan and Peggy were always so fair in their pricing policy." It is indeed It has been put out by an academic company and that is apparently the price their books go for - nothing to do with Peggy, who was as unhappy as we were. It has kindly been pointed out to us that in March, the book will be offered at £16 via Dance and Song. "i know Jim gets very tetchy - thinks we should just concentrate on his body of work. but it is fascinating. just how he became |Ewan MacColl - the artist." Sorry Al - don't understand a word of that - have always been interested in most aspects of Ewan's life and work - as an actor, singer, artist, teacher..... Have just re-listened to the rough of the Lyric FM programme - magic, For someone who started out knowing nothing about MacColl, Paula has done a wonderful job. The first programme deals with his early life, his theatre work, his entry into folksong, the start of the Singers Club his approach to songwriting and the importance he attached to the ballads Despite the fact that the programme is an hour long she has only been able to use a fraction of the material on hand and has had to just touch on some subjects. Will be putting up the details later Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 23 Jan 15 - 09:52 AM
I have been reading 'Tis Sixty Years Since and no, I am not referring to the sub-title of Sir Walter Scott's novel Waverley though that is undoubtedly where the title came from. No, I am referring to the 2011 publication whose own sub-title is The 1951 Edinburgh People's Festival Ceilidh and the Scottish Folk Revival edited by Eberhard (Paddy) Bort and published by Grace Notes (ISBN 978-1-907676-10-9) I cannot understand why I have not heard of this before as it is normally the sort of book that I snap up as soon as I hear of it, but in fact I received it as one of of my Christmas presents from Tina. It is a delight! The fact that I have met more than half of the 23 contributors is obviously a strong factor. It's relevance to this thread? Oh yes, I was just getting round to that. This morning, I was reading an essay by the great Adam MacNaughtan called The Poets And The Folk Revival. He is writing about Helen B. Cruickshank whose poems set to melodies by Jim Reid have made such an impact on the Scottish scene. The People's Ceilidh in Edinburgh in 1951 is widely recognised as one of the sparks that began the bushfire of the folk revival with Alan Lomax, Hamish Henderson and Ewan MacColl all involved. Here is what Adam writes on pages 89/90:- She was a friend also of to those who arrived for the People's Ceilidhs, because she undertook to find accommodation for many of them and her home was the venue for the After-The-Ceilidh ceilidhs. There the traditional singers met with members of the audience and with performers from Theatre Workshop and ther Hamish Henderson and Ewan MacColl had one of their frequent casting oots. Hamish accused Ewan of hogging the stage and Ewan replied that folk would rather hear him than the rum-soaked voices of people like Jimmy MacBeath.
Really? I had the great pleasure of hearing Jimmy in quite a number of different settings in the last three years of his life; on festival stage, in pub and in tenement flat. I have been lucky to hear many of Britain's traditional singers formally and informally. Some had better voices than Jimmy but not one was in the same class as Jimmy as a performer in front of a crowd however large or small. He was a mesmeric performer; his sense of timing was immaculate and his involvement with a song was total and convincing. For me, it is Jimmy rather than Ewan every time.
This may help to answer something raised by MGM on this thread as long ago as 04 Feb 11 - 01:19 AM
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Jan 15 - 10:00 AM
I suppose Ewan's 100th is as good a time as any to drag out all the old stories of Ewan Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: greg stephens Date: 23 Jan 15 - 02:55 PM
As this thread is personal anecdotes only, here's a good question. Has anybody personally heard him sing the Ballad of Joe Stalin?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Jan 15 - 03:07 PM
Heard the 78 once in the early sixties Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Jan 15 - 03:11 PM
well i suppose what i meant Jim was that my family grew up in the same neck of the woods. lancashire....as manchester was then. my lot were irish, rather than scottish - also a family with a respect for music and education.
however the grinding poverty of those days tended to make boys in particular rather hard headed - rather than having artistic ambitions.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 25 Jan 15 - 05:49 PM
In 1972, I met Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger in a pub in what I remember to have been in North London (I know that might be vague). They were performing upstairs in an informal setting--really it was a combination performance, singalong, and open mic night (without the mics). They could not have been more gracious. If anyone knows the name of this place I would be grateful.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Jan 15 - 08:12 PM
In 1972 their regular club would have been 'The Bull and Mouth' in Holborn in Central London, on the edge of the City of London Wasn't a singaround/open mike club Would be interested to know where it was if you find out. The nearest the Singers ever got to 'informal' was their, "you name it, we'll sing it" nights, where up to half a dozen residents would take the stage and sing songs on subjects passed up by the audience on scraps of paper. One memorable subject was "gazumped brickie goes berserk and slays two" - Bert Lloyd worked out that it was 'Lamkin' "however the grinding poverty of those days tended to make boys in particular rather hard headed - rather than having artistic ambitions." MacColl, and many of his generation became interested in the arts during the depression - he described how he and his mates used to shelter in Cheetham Mill public library to get out of the rain and both educated and politicised themselves in the reading room. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Jan 15 - 09:50 PM
yes i've heard that before. i did a fair bit of educating myself in reading rooms in libraries.
it still doesn't quite add up. theres obviously some mentor - maybe in the WEA ......or the communist party.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jan 15 - 03:35 AM
"it still doesn't quite add up. theres obviously some mentor - maybe in the WEA ......or the communist party" Never really came across one Al His mother took in lodgers during the depression and he mentioned a couple of Scotsmen among them, but they were people who he learned songs from rather than politics. He was a contemporary of Eddie Frow, the man who set up The Working Class Library in Salford, but I think they grew up together politically. I worked at Eddie and Ruth's Manchester home once (in those days their house was full of books and they lived in a caravan in the garden) when I was researching Peterloo songs and he and his wife described Ewan's father as being very political - he went to Australia to make money for his family during the Depression, but was packed off back home for his union activities there - Eddie described him as the only Trades Unionist to be deported FROM Australia TO Britain. In a film clip shown as an obituary, Ewan described groups of Salford lads getting together to discuss politics, but as for their being a single mentor - don't think so. Peggy describes in the Lyric FM programme how Ewan was a speed reader who could read and absorb a book in a day, that was my impression of him when I lived with them for a short time He would read a book during the day and quote from it at length at a Critics Group meeting - love to be able to do that Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 26 Jan 15 - 04:45 AM
maybe so - i find it hard to imagine someone that original.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jan 15 - 05:20 AM
"maybe so - i find it hard to imagine someone that original." Lots of people like that Al Suggest you listen to what Peggy has to say on the programmes Even Ewan's enemies (those that knew him - plenty that didn't) accepted that he was a genius - you only had to sit with him for an hour to realise that Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Rain Dog Date: 26 Jan 15 - 05:38 AM
Article in yesterdays Observer newspaper
Ewan MacColl: the godfather of folk
Ewan MacColl: the godfather of folk who was adored – and feared
Best known today as the man who wrote Dirty Old Town, the singer and songwriter was a leftwing firebrand who instigated the 60s folk revival. On the centenary of his birth, Neil Spencer recalls an inspirational yet controversial figure while family, friends and fans pay tribute
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 26 Jan 15 - 05:59 AM
There is a slight error in that article. Referring to the policy of singing songs only from your own culture. Peggy refers to "our club" after which is the following "[the Ballads and Blues Club based in London]". "Our Club" was The Singers Club which Ewan and Peggy set up after a disagreement about the policy which they wished to introduce at the Ballads and Blues Club. The Ballads and Blues Club continued under the guidance of Malcolm Nixon until May 1965.
About that "policy", in August last year in an article in the Guardian Peggy groans and says "We were snobs etc etc. We went about it the wrong way".
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jan 15 - 06:22 AM
"Malcolm Nixon" Here's a dedication to Malcolm written at the time of the move Jim Carroll
NO AGENTS NEED APPLY (1960) In the early days of the folk revival, before commercialism hit, there was no need for a singer or songwriter to have an agent. One of the first agent-cum-managers who not only looked to the future but who was trying to create it prematurely, was a fast-talking, capable but not overly straightforward Scotsman. Ewan wrote this scurrilous piece as a gauntlet and flung it offstage many times in an accurate imitation of his victim's vocal mannerisms. He later wrote about it: This light-hearted piece is written in the spirit of pure malice, though it does not refer to any agent to which the author wishes to be known. In fact, all the agents of our acquaintance, particularly those Scots agents resident in London with the initials MN, are known to be fine, noble citizens who spend all their spare time making sacrifices in order to further the cause of folk music. If an occasional folk artist gets trampled on, this must be considered as a mere occupational hazard.
I'm just a simple modest chap, as onyone can see; (anyone) I'm easy to get on wi' if you'll just agree wi' me. (with) And yet there's folk that scorn me, dinna ask the reason why - (don't) Whene'er I show my face they roar, 'No agents need apply!' When first I cam' tae London, 't was an awful sicht tae see, Folks singing up and doon the place wi'oot the leave o' me, but (my permission)
Chorus: Today, tonight or anytime, you never will repent If you join the happy family that pays me ten percent.
It was me invented folksong and I've made it a' the go, (trendy) I'm kent in a' the folk clubs as an impresario; (known) Oor tradition it was deein' till I set it on its feet (dying) And dragged it by the short hairs doon the length o' Denmark Street. I breathed on it and gave it life and sent it tae the top, And noo ye'd hardly ken it frae the music they ca' 'pop'. So (chorus) (know)
I met a laddie frae the North, a wee bit feckless boy, (small, helpless) I kent that he had talent by his suit o' corduroy; So I walked up close behind him and I whispered in his lug, (ear) And noo the lad's as tame as ony weel-trained poodle dog. (any) Noo, he sings for bobby-soxers on the telly, that's no lie, And yet there's folk still say tae me, 'No agents need apply!' So (chorus)
They say a wee bit talent helps a lad to get ahead, But my singers have nae need o' it, for they've got me instead. Their trust in me is boundless, but there are still some who cry, 'Get back to Tin Pan Alley, for no agents need apply!' I ken a' about show business and there's nothing I don't know, (all) I've been hanging roond the fringes for the last three years or so. So (chorus)
O, little did my mither think when first she cradled me (mother) That I would be a big shot in the folk song industry; My rise has been spectacular, there's no one can deny, Except the orra folk who say, 'No agents need apply!' (awkward)In the programs that are seedy, where the budget's somewhat low, I can get a cut-rate spot for you upon the radio. So (chorus)
Music note: Frank Harte places the probable origin of this tune as London, 1863. Sheet music of the song 'No Irish Need ApplyÓ appeared in Cleveland the following year, with the credits: 'An original song written by Miss Kathleen O'Neil.' See chapter heading note for THE IRISHMEN.
No Agents Need Apply
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 26 Jan 15 - 07:24 AM
Thanks for that Jim, never heard it and never seen it previously. As it says above "Written in pure malice" but I don't know how accurate Ewan's imitation of his victim's vocal mannerism's were. Did you ever meet Malcolm Nixon Jim? Perhaps you can answer that. Strangely enough I thought the opening two lines sounded autobiographical.
I believe that you will find that the agency came about almost by accident. The Ballads and Blues club being in London was able to put on a wide variety of singers/musicians, people visiting and passing through on their way around Europe. People such as Alan Lomax, Peggy Seeger, Ralph Rinzler, Sandy Paton for instance. These in addition to home grown talent. Other clubs around the country would contact Malcolm wishing to contact/book various performers and so the agency arose. This is as I know it, having known Malcolm for about four years previously to working for him for a further four years.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 26 Jan 15 - 07:30 AM
Click here to see a photo, taken yesterday by Doc Rowe. His caption reads Celebrating Ewan's Centenary in London yesterday. Prominent amongst the 13 people in the photo is Ewan's close friend and great admirer. Bob Davenport.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 26 Jan 15 - 08:01 AM
Vic, do I detect a sense of irony in that remark?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 26 Jan 15 - 08:06 AM
I can only detect 11 people, or possibly 12, if that's someone's head at the back and not a gnarled lump of tree.
Does this mean the missing person has suffered the same airbrushing fate which once befell Leon Trotsky?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 26 Jan 15 - 08:13 AM
Vic, do I detect a sense of irony in that remark
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jan 15 - 11:04 AM
"Did you ever meet Malcolm Nixon Jim?" No - never did - I first met E & P in 1967 and knew him to just before his death in 1989; personally, I never heard him ever make a remark any more vindictive than "I thought the opening two lines sounded autobiographical" In the frighteningly over half-century I have been involved in folk music I never met anybody else who were as busy and hard working at the music as Ewan and Peggy were, who were prepared to devote a night a week to working with less experienced singers (for 8 years), or happy to throw their home open to song enthusiasts and researchers to enable them to use their library or song collection The more successful ones I knew were too busy getting on with their careers (when they weren't busy telling the world what a bastard Ewan was) It's quite often forgotten that the disputes Ewan had with the rest of the revival had two sides, like the Malcolm Nixon bit, which has more sub-plots than King Lear. The story of how John Brune nearly sabotaged one of the socially most important radio programmes on Travellers, 'The Travelling People' out of either vindictiveness or sheer stupidity doesn't get much of an airing, and when it does, it's usually told as an anti-MacColl yarn. Shortly after the formation of The Critics Group Ewan and Bert Lloyd attempted to mend some fences by organising a forum of leading figures on the folk scene in a pub in Soho - the panellists were Lloyd, Bob Davenport and Alex Campbell, MacColl chaired All three spoke and when Ewan attempted to sum up - he was shouted down by Davenport, as was every speaker from the floor - the meeting broke up in near fisticuffs at the point where Davenport described Jeannie Robertson as "a terrible singer" I confess I wasn't at the meeting, but we often play our recording of it to remind us what we're missing on the British folk scene. Ewan was never the world's greatest diplomat, but he mellowed somewhat with age - we found, at the cost of a pleasant evening of Irish singing at The Musical Traditions Club in London a few years ago, that Bob hasn't. Not so long ago BBC 4 did a programme entitled 'Folk Britannia, on which a leading folk name declared that Ewan's and Bert's aim when they first helped to set up the revival was to form "Folk Ensembles" similar to those found in Eastern Europe (god-awful things where the singers and dancers dress up in 'traditional' costume and perform pseudo-ethnic songs and dances) As proof, he produced the insert notes of an Irish music album where this aim is stated - what he neglected to mention was that the notes were written by an American musicologist! And the beat goes on....! One of the great pleasures of working on the Lyric FM programmes on Ewan recently was that the producer, Paula Carroll (no relation) was totally new to Ewan, Peggy and the British folk scene so she she didn't have to clamber over the shit mountain in order to discuss Ewan as an artist - we're really proud to have been involved in the project (so far - haven't hard programme two yet) Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 26 Jan 15 - 12:36 PM
Jim, Am I missing something?
Ewan writes a song about someone "in pure malice" and it is lighthearted. When I suggest that it sounds more like autobiography it is vindictive. You really should lighten up a bit.
You never met Malcolm Nixon and only knew Ewan and Peggy from 1967.
"more sub plots than King Lear". You know that and yet you were not there.
What can I say?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,jim bainbrdge Date: 26 Jan 15 - 01:11 PM
Must say I'd never have suspected Vic Smith of photoshopping anything but really!! Come clean, Vic....
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jan 15 - 02:02 PM
"Ewan writes a song about someone "in pure malice" and it is lighthearted." I didn't say it was lighthearted _ I don't believe for one moment it was - I agree with Peggy that it was "scurrilous" Doesn't reduce your own statement though. I found Ewan one of the easiest people to discuss with - I argued with him on numerous occasions over politics. I admit, the first time it happened I was somewhat querulous, thanks to the reputation that surrounded him, but honestly - no problem - I believe he shifted his attitude on one subject we somewhat heatedly debated "Ewan and Peggy from 1967." True, but I knew him right up to his death - twenty years continuously. I hope nobody ever holds me to account for what I was like in the early 1960s - and as I said (and you have chosen to ignore) there were two sides to the disputes MacColl got into. "You know that and yet you were not there" Again, true, but I know enough to understand that it was not just about 'singing songs from your own background' as it is often presented. In the end, it really doesn't matter to me - I was a recipient of Ewan and Peggy's generosity and, as I said, no other performer, professional or otherwise, has shown the slightest inclination to help a no-mark wannabe like me the way they did - and I was one of about fifty. It's said Ewan was arrogant - maybe - if I'd dragged my way out of Depression Salford, helped set up a ground-breaking theatre, then moved on to become the respected figure in folk song that he did, I miht have a little trouble in squeezing through narrow doorways. It's the people who are arrogant without having a reason that bother me. Perhaps if people addressed the situation as it was back the, with the fake voices that nearly wrecked 'The Travelling People', or the arrogant bullying of an audience gathered together to attempt to bring some sort of unity to the folk scene, or the downright lies told on television - or maybe just the fact that over half a century after MacColl's death it is still impossible to discuss his work as an artist without this shit... perhaps then you might have point \Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 26 Jan 15 - 02:35 PM
Come clean, Vic.... I think the problem is that once we get into double figures my poor old brain becomes confused.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,JenBurdoo Date: 26 Jan 15 - 03:04 PM
Second-hand anecdote -- Sci-fi and comics author Dan Abnett told me he knew MacColl when he was a kid; apparently one of Abnett's relatives was in the same music scene and made bodhrans. I asked because Abnett's most popular series, the Warhammer 40,000 military SF tie-in "Gaunt's Ghosts", focuses on a Celtic regiment with a background clearly patterned on the Wild Geese and the '45. (Heck, listen to "The Highlander's Lament" and you have the backstory right there.) One of the main characters is named Oan Mkoll.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,John from "Elsie`s Band" Date: 26 Jan 15 - 03:49 PM
When we were emerging from being "skifflers" to becoming enthusiasts for traditional music and songs I remember meeting E.M. and P.S., on a number of occasions, in a singing club, not too far from Charing Cross station,( the name deserts me). A regular to be seen there was Fitzroy Coleman, a fine player and singer.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Good Soldier Schweik Date: 26 Jan 15 - 07:12 PM
OK Jim. I will try and start a discussion on his work, Ewan MacColl in my humble opinion is in the same class as Woody Guthrie as a songwriter, what are the reasons for this?
in my opinion their best songs reflect their closeness to the source of their subject matter and in MacColls case to source singers, an example being Shoals of Herring and Sam Larner.
Dick Miles.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Elmore Date: 26 Jan 15 - 08:59 PM
Soaked the daylights out of us to do a concert. Felt like he was a bit of an a-hole. Peggy was adorable
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 26 Jan 15 - 09:23 PM
wassat mean - soaked the daylights?
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Elmore Date: 26 Jan 15 - 10:13 PM
Sorry Al. "Soaked" used to mean overcharged in the States. That was unfair. We had worked very hard and hoped to make a bit of money for our folk club, but only broke even despite a full house. Our fault, not Ewan's. Regards, Elmore.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Dick Miles Date: 27 Jan 15 - 03:44 AM
I would interpret Bob Davenports appearance to honour MacColl as a positive, an attempt to put aside past differences. MacColl and Seeger came and played the club in Bury St Edmunds folk that I organised, they were excellent, they drew a big crowd, the evening was a success financially they did not over charge.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jan 15 - 03:56 AM
"apparently one of Abnett's relatives was in the same music scene and made bodhrans" Peter Abnett made Appalachian dulcimers - he made one for Ewan's son Hamish That dulcimer now hangs on our workroom wall few feet from my head Didn't know he made bodhrans otherwise I might of thought twice before I hung it there! "I would interpret Bob Davenports appearance...." I would put Bob's appearance possibly down to Photoshop. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:04 AM
they had a good reputation in England for charging folk clubs not very much. i suppose the huge distances involved in travelling round America made it more difficult to work out in advance what to charge.
i wouldn't know where to start. over the years , i've had offers to gig abroad - the gulf, Europe, and even Canada a couple of times.
respect to anyone who can get their head round it. oh yeh i did some gigs in Spain - however like a twat, i asked the RAC to plan my route. this they did with a ruler and a school atlas.
A piece of advice to all musicians - never try to drive a Lada over the Pyrenees.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:50 AM
I would put Bob's appearance possibly down to Photoshop.
A man who can't even count up to 13 is facing two accusations of having the technical ability to use Photoshop!
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:14 AM
Bob was certainly there. I have a similar photo....
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jan 15 - 07:20 AM
"A man who can't even count up to 13 is facing two accusations of having the technical ability to use Photoshop!" Deepest apologies Vic - I mistook what I believed to be a somewhat coy confession - would have been worth a commendation had you done it though. When Tom Munnelly fell ill, not realising how ill he was I Photoshopped his head onto a photograph of a man carrying a sandwich board declaring "It's going to get worse". When Tom saw it, he insisted we put it up in our local bar - it remained there till a few months before Tom's death, when the landlady insisted we took it down. Apologies again Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 27 Jan 15 - 07:42 AM
Maybe Davenport really was there and all the other people were photoshopped in.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Dick Miles Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:32 AM
Bob was there, if Derek says so, then as I said before that is a positive. When Ewan came to my folk club he was very interested in the area and the local industries etc, When I later did a support for them in Leicester BOTH OF THEM were polite and chatty.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 27 Jan 15 - 08:49 AM
Another quotation from what is proving to be a thoroughly enjoyable, informative read; 'Tis Sixty Years Since, this time from an essay called Hamish of the Songs by poet, journalist, song collector and all-round good guy, Maurice Fleming. He informs me of something about Theatre Workshop and MacColl that I did not know when he writes on page 150:- It was a stroke of enormous fortune that the School of Scottish Studies had opened in 1951 just when Hamish was considering his future. His temporary appointment as a research fellow was to become permanent. What would he have done barring that happy accident? He told me that he had been tempted to join Theatre Workshop, the company run by Joan Littlewood and Ewan MacColl. At that point they had been considering setting up headquarters in Scotland. When they went back south again, Hamish decided against it. Had he gone he might have become a director, an actor or most likely a playwright.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Vic Smith Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:14 AM
Just caught this article on Ewan in last Sunday's The Observer, a really long piece with interviews with Martin Carthy, Peggy Seeger, Jamie MacColl, Shirley Collins and Rachel Unthank. You can read it on-line by clicking here.
Let's really throw the cat amongst the pigeons by quoting what Shirley Collins says about him in full. I must say that what she says comes as no surprise to me because I have heard this (and worse) from Shirley talking about Ewan in the 40 years that I have known her; most particularly when I was driving her thousands of miles around on the long America Over The Water Tour. She is quoted as saying:- Ewan had quite a pernicious influence on folk music, I think. People who went to the Critics Group [a study group for singers held at MacColl's home] ended up being moulded by him, sounding the same. Folk music should be about reflecting music from the regions, the different voices, the roots of it. You couldn't differentiate anything with his approach.
I first met him when I was 20 and my antenna went up straightaway. I genuinely don't want to be unpleasant, but he was unpleasant to me, quite sexist, and pretentious and pompous – words that should never be applied to a folk singer. He said to me that I shouldn't wear nail varnish. What a wretched thing to say to a young woman with an interest; what a way of putting someone down.
He was self-invented; there seemed nothing truthful about him, and that's always concerned me greatly. He was an actor, really, even as a singer. The way he'd turn his chair, sit astride it, put his hand to his ear... my heart would sink. I know it's not fair as he's not here to defend himself, but I've had my opinion since I first met him, and I've not seen any reason to change it.
He was a talented man, yes – you can't get away from that – who made some fine pieces of work, but he could never reach me like a traditional singer could, someone like George Maynard or Harry Cox. His influence now? Things have opened up. Nobody has to listen to what other people are saying. People are going their own way. That's the way it should be.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:54 AM
Jim,
Re your posting above of Ewan's song attacking agents. If I read it correctly it was Ewan that described it as "Light-Hearted".
Why don't you calm down a bit? Whatever you think you know about E & P and the BBA happenings before 1967 it is second hand. Some people that were actually there are still around.
GUEST John from Elsie's Band above. Re Fitzroy Coleman: Fitz was a regular at The Princess Louise and he was an amazing musician. I can't recall him playing at other BBA venues but it is possible that he did.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 27 Jan 15 - 09:55 AM
Apologies the above posting was me.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Dick Miles Date: 27 Jan 15 - 11:43 AM
" Ewan had quite a pernicious influence on folk music, I think. People who went to the Critics Group [a study group for singers held at MacColl's home] ended up being moulded by him, sounding the same. Folk music should be about reflecting music from the regions, the different voices, the roots of it. You couldn't differentiate anything with his approach.
I first met him when I was 20 and my antenna went up straightaway. I genuinely don't want to be unpleasant, but he was unpleasant to me, quLLLite sexist, and pretentious and pompous – words that should never be applied to a folk singer. He said to me that I shouldn't wear nail varnish. What a wretched thing to say to a young woman with an interest; what a way of putting someone down.
He was self-invented; there seemed nothing truthful about him, and that's always concerned me greatly. He was an actor, really, even as a singer. The way he'd turn his chair, sit astride it, put his hand to his ear... my heart would sink. I know it's not fair as he's not here to defend himself, but I've had my opinion since I first met him, and I've not seen any reason to change it.
He was a talented man, yes – you can't get away from that – who made some fine pieces of work, but he could never reach me like a traditional singer could, someone like George Maynard or Harry Cox. His influence now? Things have opened up. Nobody has to listen to what other people are saying. People are going their own way. That's the way it should be." in my opinion, Ewan was correct about trying to present his material well, I am not sure it is fair to describe his effect on Folk Music as pernicious, after all his songs and songwriting have added positively to the folk repertoire, even if his attempts to mould and help singers stylistically is open to criticism. I agree with some of Shirleys other remarks, my first encounter with MacColl was extremely negative in fact how I managed to not punch him in the face, I do not know, but when I met him on later occasions he was pleasant and courteous. I had a very interesting conversation with Lou Killen about MacColl [and there is a witness to this conversation] Lou said the first time he saw Ewan perform he was absolutely stunned by Ewans rendition of a song, it made the hair on the back of his neck stand on end, so he made a point of seeing him a week later, but this time he was disappointed because his interpretation of the song was EXACTLY THE SAME POINT WAS THAT SINGER SHOULD SING THE SONG DIFFERENTLY EVERY TIME
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jan 15 - 11:55 AM
"Why don't you calm down a bit?" Perfectly calm Hoot - you seem to be the one losing your rag. Let's face it, what Ewan's critics seem to be incapable of accepting is that Ewan was as much sinned against as sinning I have just given you my example of Ewan and Peggy's generosity towards inexperienced singers, dating back to 1964, not 1967 - you chose not to respond. I've given examples of the behaviour of others towards Ewan - one was from my having viewed Folk Britannia and having a copy of the notes of the album ('Irish Dance Music Willie Clancy and Michael Gorman) whose notes were falsely attributed to either Ewan or Bert. The John Brune story is openly told against MacColl and we have a recording of the John Snow meeting that was wrecked by Davenport's behaviour - none of this comes 'second hand' You choose not to respond. I've associated with friends of Ewan's - some of them going back to his Salford days, to have a pretty convincing picture of the kind of man he was, so if you don't mind, I'd rather make my mind up on than rather than unqualified backbiting gossip that has made the British revival what it is today. In the end, it doesn't matter really I spent a large slice of my life getting pleasure from listening to MacColl and Seeger and those he worked with and enjoying their company. I still get pleasure from listening to MacColl's and Bert's English and Scottish Ballads (8 volumes) The Long Harvest (10 volumes), Blood and Roses (5 volumes) the numerous 'Muse' albums.... and all the other albums put out by MacColl and his ssociates. The time we spent in the Critics Group inspired our thirty years of field work and has helped maintain the interest that brought me onto the folk scene over half century ago Doubt if that could be said of many other people on the scene. Certainly beats watching a folk superstar chucking up over the front row of the audience, as I once did (luckily from three rows away). Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Dick Miles Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:10 PM
That should read "Lou killens point was singers should vary unconsciously their interpretation every time". a minor criticism perhaps but still in my opinion an interesting comment in my opinion it is an over simplification to describe his influence as pernicious because we must take in to account the extremely positive contribution his songs have made to the folk repertoire, I made a conscious decision to never go near the singers club, instead i chose to listen to a lot of traditional singers and I agree with Shirley that if your interest is in singing traditional songs that you are better off listening to source singers than other revival singers. I do admire MacColls professional approach to presentation,I see nothing wrong with presenting an act in a professional style, perhaps Ewan was not a very good actor, a good actor can vary their interpretation every time, he was an excellent songwriter, and I think his songs will live on, and his legacy will be the songs he has written.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:55 PM
"should vary unconsciously their interpretation every time". Lou was entitled to his opinion - seems not very sensible to me There are only a limited number of interpretations you can make of a set text - the shorter the song and the narrower the range of the plot, the less room you have to maneuver - what did he suggest you do with the song when you've tried them all - keep a dustbin for dead songs maybe!! Not taken you long to join in the general corpse kicking Dick Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Dick Miles Date: 27 Jan 15 - 01:33 PM
Jim, you should re read my posts. n my opinion, Ewan was correct about trying to present his material well, I am not sure it is fair to describe his effect on Folk Music as pernicious, after all his songs and songwriting have added positively to the folk repertoire, even if his attempts to mould and help singers stylistically is open to criticism. "I do admire MacColls professional approach to presentation,I see nothing wrong with presenting an act in a professional style, perhaps Ewan was not a very good actor, a good actor can vary their interpretation every time, he was an excellent songwriter, and I think his songs will live on, and his legacy will be the songs he has written." I do not expect of you to understand singing, any more than i would expect lou killen to re wire a house , you were an electrician, that is something i would expect you to know about.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Jan 15 - 02:14 PM
are there only a limited number of ways to do a song......i suppose there must be a limit. it must be quite a big limit.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 27 Jan 15 - 03:34 PM
Losing my rag Jim ? Not at all in fact I find your postings highly amusing. All I have tried to do is correct a few errors.
I admit I have never really enjoyed Ewan's singing except for one or two songs and didn't really like his general attitude when performing but that doesn't mean that I am jumping on his grave. He wrote some songs and like the other name changing folk related performer that you sometimes mention achieved some success in the pop music world. I never enjoyed much of his material either.
Re Ewan and Peggy's hospitality and the John Snow meeting, you accuse me of not replying to. How can I comment I wasn't there? If I did comment it would be second hand knowledge.
As you quite rightly say "It doesn't really matter". But it does sometimes help to hear both sides of a story.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Jan 15 - 04:08 PM
just read the article in the guardian
The Godfather who was feared....!
he never actually ordered any hits on anybody, did he?
perhaps he said Bob Davernport sleeps with the fishes......but he was wrong.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Good Soldier Schweik Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:13 PM
the reason that in my opinion MacColl is on a par with Guthrie as a song writer is that they both shared or came into very close contact with the environment that they were writing about. my old friend Jez Lowe also comes in to this class with some of his songs about Coal Mining,Jez Lowe is from that back ground, his father had first hand experience, His best songs have the ring of authenticity. Bob Dylan has also written some good songs but unlike the other three afore mentioned] in my opinion they lack authenticity[ with the exception of Masters of War]. The best songs of Guthrie, MacColl and Lowe all come from either first hand experience or from in MacColls case very close contct with his subject matter[ in particular the radio ballads]. Dylan to begin was heavily influenced by Woody Guthrie, but he never shared the environment of his subject matter in the same way as Woody, his song writing is written from a more distanced perspective, which in my opinion makes it remarkable that he managed to write a number of good songs.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:36 PM
"All I have tried to do is correct a few errors." What errors have you "corrected" actually? I have told you why I believe what I believe about the incidents I have described took place What exactly have you said about Malcolm Nixon - that I didn't know him seems to be the sum total. I suggest that you didn't know MacColl that well Ballads and Blues lasted up to 1965 - four years after MacColl left The singers Club lasted right up to Ewan's death -0 20 odd-years and left its mark on British folksong by throwing the entire repertoire of traditional song wide open - more than an indication of which policy worked. "But it does sometimes help to hear both sides of a story" Yes - it most certainly does - which is why I bother with this garbage. I've got a little tired of the Urban myths about MacColl - as here, they prevent a half-decent discussion on the importance of the man. Some of the old guard of the revival strike me as a pretty nasty bunch with little to choose between any of them I'm quite happy to go by what I know and experienced rather than plouter round what happened in the early sixties I came on to the scene in 1962 at The Spinners Club - 18 months later I was on my way out, when the Spinners booked MacColl and Seeger, which persuaded me there might be something hanging round for - there was, and they will have my eternal gratitude for being the reason I stayed. One of the refreshing things about living in Ireland is the many people here respect Ewan for his songs, his singing and his commitment They don't judge him because he changed his name or didn't fight in the war, or wrote songs about shyster agents (no I didn't know him, but I knew a few people who did) Well done for turning MacColl's 100th into another shit-mountain Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootennanny Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:17 PM
"(no I didn't know him, but I knew a few people who did"
Jim is that how you judge people that you never met? on hearsay?
"I'm quite happy to go by what I know and experienced rather than plouter round what happened in the early sixties"
Have you just contradicted yourself?
Yes The Ballads & Blues Club did close in 1965. No doubt you know exactly why. So go ahead and tell us.Give me another laugh.
Best wishes
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Good Soldier Schweik Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:26 PM
"The singers Club lasted right up to Ewan's death -0 20 odd-years and left its mark on British folksong by throwing the entire repertoire of traditional song wide open - more than an indication of which policy worked" An over simplification, I agree that they played a part in getting British singers to search out uk material, but then there were many others that were not connected to the london singers club that did this a couple of examples spring to mind, Cyril Tawney, Martin Carthy, Harry Boardman.RoyHarris, Nottingham Tradtional Music club as for policies working, well it would be inaccurate as you seem to be implying, to say that American Folk is not popular in English Folk clubs, I was astonished recently, when I turned up to do a floor spot at Dartford folk club, the attendance was over a 100 people. The booked guest was an american fiddler and singer OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY all the other floor spots sang American music, I was the only person that sang any British material, this is not meant as a criticism but just a statement of fact, the music was high quality, all the performers were of a professional standard, AND the club was better attended than any others I have seen for years.my only conclusion was that American F
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Good Soldier Schweik Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:28 PM
continued from above americanfolk music is just as popular as english folk music in a lot of uk folk clubs in the year 2015.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 15 - 04:04 AM
" Jim is that how you judge people that you never met? on hearsay? Seems how MacColl was judged my many people Personally, I don't give a toss one way or the other at a somewhat minor event which occurred in the folk revival half-a-century ago - for those who never met him, Nixon's only claim to fame was the song MacColl wrote about him - certainly didn't leave any footprints in the sand. The only reference to the event could find was this , from Colin Harper's 'Dazzling Stranger', which more-or-or-less confirms what I have heard about Nixon - it's from the section in which Harper describes MacColl's role in the creation of the folk song revival
"MacColl was never one to shirk from confrontation or compromise his principles. At some point in 1959, seemingly over the summer, he had a row with Malcolm Nixon, the organiser (hire of premises, advertising, and so on) of his club. The reasons are unclear. Some believe it was simply that Nixon wanted to commercialise the operation and/or become a professional agent for folk musicians and/or become MacColl's manager - doubtless hoping to capitalise on the pulling power of an individual now established as the leader of a movement. In the event, Nixon took the name Ballads & Blues while MacColl retreated from view for a while and licked his wounds".
I've no idea why the Ballads and Blues Club died, nor would I dream of "giving anybody a laugh" over its demise, unlike some people heer, necrophobia really isn't my thing Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 15 - 07:26 AM
So the answer to my two questions appear to be Yes and Yes, and you are still gong on and on about something about which "you don't give a toss one way or another".
Thanks for making that clear.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Jan 15 - 07:55 AM
"So the answer to my two questions appear to be Yes and Yes" No and no actually I wasn't around, so I have to rely on those who were, including my wife, who first went into the B&B in the hope of hearing Blues, heard Ewan and stayed with the folk scene- she was a regular. I knew Bruce Dunnett, who was around at the time and pretty well confirmed MacColl's version of events, and Harper's book indicates that it was a popular belief of what happened (he also suggests that the B&B bombed when Nixon ran off with the takings, but presents no evidence of the truth of that) I only "go on and on" when aresholes use the events of fifty odd years ago to divert discussion on MacColl and his massive contribution as a creative artist - mentioning no names, of course. Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 28 Jan 15 - 08:08 AM
Jim,
Whoever suggested that Malcolm Nixon ran off with the takings of the B&B obviously knows absolutely nothing about it.
Yet another posting to bring a smile my face.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Jan 15 - 08:10 AM
Smile away - nice to brighten up somebody's day Jim Carroll
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby Date: 28 Jan 15 - 08:28 AM
Just logged in to this one. Yes, Bob Davenport was there in Russell Square. Jeanie and I went along as we were in town for the Bob Copper event at CS House the previous day. Refreshments were welcomed! btw, Phil Colclough whom I hadn't seen in a long while, is the fellow on extreme left wearing the woolly hat, in Vic's link of 26th.
Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes? From: Good Soldier Schweik Date: 28 Jan 15 - 05:00 PM