How to have a civil debate or a civil discussion - address what is being said. If you make a statement and that statement is challenged then address that point without getting personal.

Keith A made a statement that did actually warrant an answer Gnome - instead of that we got comments on beer festivals - hardly civil

Unfortunately Mr Shaw people also post here after umpteen pints down the pub and end up spouting remarks they must surely regret on reflection later.

As to discussing events in history that predate those taking part in the discussion then it is both logical and reasonable that historical works and articles relating to the subject under discussion form a large part of the basis for that discussion.

Another point is the scatter-gun approach of those who when they obviously are losing the argument resort to throwing baseless accusations about as a sort of smokescreen to withdraw behind and when called to back those accusations up resort to total silence.

I would predict that this thread too is bound for closure.