HiLo, all you have to do if you wish to take up any point I've made is to read carefully what I actually said before you post. You are making a habit of not doing that. Twice now in one thread. Having to clarify what I've already couched in reasonably careful language is a pain in the neck, frankly. And I'm not attacking that phrase, Keith. I just expressed the opinion that it carries inevitable religious undertones which I think are deliberately intended. That's fine, as long as you guys don't keep denying what's obvious. I'm really not that bothered.