The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #158223   Message #3744612
Posted By: Steve Shaw
17-Oct-15 - 07:07 AM
Thread Name: BS: The Pope in America
Subject: RE: BS: The Pope in America
As for me, I don't take anyone's word for it, authority or not. Time and time again I've said that Darwin got some things wrong. Time and time again I've said that education is about making children curious and persuading them never to take anyone's unsupported word for anything. And that includes God. I don't know whether there's a God or not, but what I do know is that he is not exempt from the same kind of critical enquiry that everything else should be subjected to. Unfortunately, exempting God is exactly what religious instruction in schools does. The reason for that, of course, is all too clear: God would fail the test at the first hurdle. Always ask for evidence. Not "proof", evidence, just to make sure that your source is at least above-board and a person of good will. Bishops, priests, rabbis, imams and ayatollahs would be instantly out of a job if every child in every school was persuaded to subject God to the same critical enquiry that they are told to apply to what they see in a test tube or down the microscope or on a nature ramble.

A thoughtful post, DMcG, but much to disagree with. Though I do agree that religious education is absolutely crucial. The history of religion, comparing the philosophies and belief systems of the major religions and the role of religion in human endeavour, vital. I'm a great admirer of ancient churches, cathedrals and monuments myself. They are as much a part of my heritage as they are of the most fervent believer's. I've even been known to put a quid in the donations box. But that is not the kind of religion I'm talking about really. I'm talking about the kind that declares God to be the explanation for everything, the great originator, the creator. If you settle for that, let's see where that leaves you. It means you can't accept evolution for a start, because if you insert a creator into evolution the whole theory collapses. Evolution can't work with a big bang and a guiding light, as much as some believers valiantly try to espouse it. It leaves you with an explanation that is completely at odds with all the laws of nature. We can see how life develops and evolves, but you don't want any of that. You want someone to have kicked it all off with some kind of wave of a wand. Well that isn't a explanation at all. There is no evidence for that. Worse, God himself simply can't be explained. If he's really there, he'd be pissed off about that and very annoyed with the religious authorities who have deliberately put him beyond explanation.

So you have science, that gets things wrong, that makes progress, that constantly modifies its ideas, that never reaches its goals, but which is replete with evidence. Along with culture, science is the ultimate human endeavour. It never ends, it's terminally curious, it stimulates our minds and it gives us joy through that curiosity. Then you have God, a permanent mystery, who no-one has ever seen or heard from, for whom there is no evidence and who himself can't be explained. An explanation for everything that can't be explained. I find that dismal. I feel that this God wants me to stop thinking, to accept childish explanations for the world of the kind I gave up on once I realised there was no Santa or tooth fairy. In fact, a real God would be very annoyed if I stopped thinking, seeing as how he's given me a mighty brain. He'd want me to keep looking for real explanations and he'd give me a good bollocking for believing in magic.

One more thing. Science is not a subject. You are doing science a thousand times a day as you look found you and try to make sense of even the most mundane things, like why this copy of The Guardian couldn't get the staples in the right place. Science began when the first humans on earth looked at the moon and wondered what it was. They probably got completely the wrong idea, but they were still scientists as long as they kept on wondering and working our better ways to find out (do note, by the way, how religion has constantly tried to get in the way of scientific enquiry. Pete is still doing it). Science won't allow you to stop asking questions. Religion would rather you avoided the awkward ones.