Well, Joe, you are clearly getting so uncomfortable with this that you are trying to goad me into insults that will get the thread closed down. Well you're not getting that. What you are getting is the fact you are clearly resorting to lies because you are way out of your comfort zone. I've seen this defensive attitude with so many religious people, which is a shame really, because I also know many people of faith who are pretty good at retaining their dignity in the face of argument. That I can respect. I asked you above to defend your unjustified comments about my mode of argument. You have not responded (why am I not surprised?). I'm now asking you to demonstrate with evidence that, as you allege, I start with the premise that everyone bar me is stupid. Let me just say this: I've expended thousands of words in this thread, closely arguing my point of view. I've taken people on, told them in some cases what respect I have for them, agreed with some points and disagreed with others. Even apologised for mistakes. Yet you appear to claim that I take everyone for a fool. Well I can tell you this. Were that the case, and having spent all this time posting, I'd be taking myself for a fool for wasting all this time. Isn't the truth, Joe Offer, that you skim the thread, you look for snippets here and there that seem to confirm your prejudices, then dive in without thinking? That you feel terribly threatened by atheists and automatically hate their guts? May I get slightly biblical with you?: By his fruits shall we know him...