Just my view on the way the thread has developed, I think intelligent people do understand about religion and the part it plays in many peoples lives....I think Steve and Bill understand that, and also understand what Joe has explained about "goodness", the ancient analogy. Personally I am moving away from outright atheism because of people like Dawkins who appear to be ideologically motivated.

It has become about the killing of spirituality and Joe's "goodness", to bring about a society where anything is permissible, where moral rules set out over centuries can be ignored.

In short, to banish social conservatism.
History has shown us that we do so at our peril.

Guest....there has not been many insults here, Pete seems to come in for some abuse, but I enjoy his contributions, he fairly makes the sparks fly..... :0)

Insults always come from people who find themselves without an answer, so they are almost always an admission of defeat.