Jim, your two links are to two anonymous pieces!
So **** what - just as Gary Sheffield before you trwaled him out of the ether, or any other historian you have ever put up - you wouldn't have a clue who they were if they were identified - you don't read historians and it is obvious you are more interested in defending the past honours of the British establishment than you are of political facts.
They are two valid pieces from historical sites - no political prejudices, no agendas evident - they are a historical analysis every bit as valid as your unqualified Max Hastings and they are saying what the rest of us have always known
Your rejecting history because it doesn't suit your of quaint jingoism is long over - about time you came to terms with it.
One of the pieces is a brilliant analysis by a group of international historians who are taking a holistic approach to the subject - ie - not presenting it from the point of view of interested nations
It is exactly in line with much that has been said by soldiers who actually fought the war, who you pair of disgusos have written of as gullible liars.
You totally ignore what your hero Hastings has to say - because it goes against all your claims (you did so a year ago when I first linked to it - that's the way you work)
You are a pair of clowns, though your technique is a little different - you go for the Uriah Heep, hand wringing approach while your mate favours the Bill Sykes thuggish approach to arguing of sneering and shouting down.
Both clowns, and sometimes entertaining nevertheless - as now.
Keep up the good work
Jim Carroll