The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #158525   Message #3754409
Posted By: Teribus
29-Nov-15 - 09:02 AM
Thread Name: BS: Jingoism or Commemoration
Subject: RE: BS: Jingoism or Commemoration
Never mind Keith Jom what about the repetitious and somewhat disturbing nature of your postings.

You have failed to comprehend what Paxman narrated in his programmes. You have failed to comprehend what was actually said by Sir Max Hastings FrHistS as you desperately cling to those dearly held myths of yours. There is no point in providing you with any information you simply choose to ignore it irrespective of source and veracity - you mentally stick your fingers in your ears and go Laa Laa Laa.

We have dismissed the works of commenting historians who are not experts and specialists on the study of the First World War as they have not done the research. We have dismissed the earlier works of some historians whose works and conclusions have been discredited in the light of new information that was not available to them at the time they published their work.

"you have called the men who fought liars because what they say doesn't fit."

No we believe the mass of evidence provided by the those who most certainly and verifiably fought that makes no mention of the monstrous allegations that you have made.

"The people of Britain have always known how badly the war was led and what a useless bloodbath it was"

On whose authority do you speak for the people of Britain you ignorant arrogant scrambler? You have no right at all to make such a claim.

Tommy Kenny - the man we recorded for three days (me, John Faulkner, Sandra Kerr and his grandson Colin, a leading virologist in Queen Mary's Hospital, Paddington at the time) told us exactly how it was - being conned into joining in workless Liverpool having not long left school, the brutality of the officers, the mud, the executions..... and eventually having the outer parts of hes ears blown off by when a piece of artillery misfired.

So now we add a bit more meat to the bones:

1: Under the Balfour Education Act of 1902 Tommy would have left school at 15. Would you call a period of three years not long left school? To enlist in the British Army of the day as a Regular you had to be 18 - you could not be sent overseas until you were 19. As a Territorial part-timer you could join at 17, but the 19 year restriction on overseas service still applied. Now if he was "conned into joining" the Army it means he was not conscripted and according to Jom nobody volunteered after March 1916. The war started in August 1914 Jom so it looks as though your Tommy Kenny if he served in France between August 1914 and March 1916 must have joined the Army in peacetime.

2: "Workless Liverpool"? Here is a description of Liverpool covering the period 1900 to 1916:

"During the first part of the 20th century Liverpool continued to expand, pulling in immigrants from Europe. In 1903 an International Exhibition took place in Edge Lane. In 1904, the building of the Anglican Cathedral began, and by 1916 the three Pier Head buildings, including the Liver Building, were complete. This period marked the pinnacle of Liverpool's economic success, when it regarded itself as the "second city" of the British Empire"

3: Your response - all lies - all made up - Tommy never served in the forces.

Sorry Jom but it was not me who interviewed and recorded Tommy Kenny's story in such a way that it could not be verified that was down to you, John Faulkner, Sandra Kerr and his grandson Colin all of whom failed to ask Tommy Kenny the right questions. Your approach to research and attention to detail is appallingly slapdash - it was YOU and your "team" that rendered the disservice to Tommy Kenny by ensuring that his story could not be checked or verified, not myself or Keith A.

4: the brutality of the officers, the mud, the executions..... and eventually having the outer parts of hes ears blown off by when a piece of artillery misfired."

So Tommy Kenny must have been an Artilleryman or serving in a Corps attached to the Artillery. He would therefore have never been in a front line trench as the artillery was not positioned there.

As for Patrick Magill wounded at Loos in 1915 he returned to England, recovered from his wounds and spent the remainder of the war in England assigned to MI7b writing propaganda. I dare say he was disillusioned after Loos in 1915 - nowhere near as disillusioned, or as pissed-off as Lieutenant-General Sir Douglas Haig after Loos in 1915.

That date is important to you isn't it Jom, because that is when your script seems to stop. For some weird reason you seem to believe that at 1915 everything pertaining to the First World War somehow gets frozen - you are wrong it didn't. Haig took over and from that point onward we started learning. But 1915 is the date and period covered by Alan Clark's book "The Donkeys" in which Clark himself admitted years after publication that he had made stuff up, it was this book that was used as the basis for Greenwood's "Oh What A Lovely War", so you ended up with shit based upon shit - but you believed it didn't you Jom - was that because MacColl/Miller told you to?

"You have been given evidence by people who were there of summary executions"

No we haven't, we've been given vague references to rumours of summary executions that are entirely lacking any corroboration, all down to your slapdash work. You cannot tell where, when or who, just what the f**k were you thinking about when you all interviewed Tommy Kenny? Truly verifiable accounts of life at the front and in the trenches abound in the form of soldiers memoirs and autobiographies and not one of them contains any reference at all to summary executions, or of Military Police forcing men to go over the top.

The gold standard indication that the British people supported the war effort throughout the war - no civil unrest in the country through the entire course of the war.

The gold standard indication of the moral of the British Army in France throughout the war - There was no mutiny in any unit of the British Army deployed to the front throughout the entire course of the war.

The evidence we submit to counter your fairytale version of events massively outweighs your "stories" (And they are just stories because of your handling of them).

"you have consistently lied, claiming you have made a life-long study of the war" - I do not think I have ever claimed making a life long study, life long interest I think is the way it was put and that came about because at the College I attended the study of both the First and Second World Wars was compulsory reading.

As for the Made Up Shit it has become your trade mark Jom and it is you that I have accused as being the "believer of urban myths" - You've been caught out too many times.