The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #146595   Message #3755841
Posted By: Jim Carroll
05-Dec-15 - 06:25 AM
Thread Name: Can a pop song become traditional?
Subject: RE: Can a pop song become traditional?
"that we will witness the complete demise of traditional folk music."
The making and passing on as I describes began to die towards the end of the 19th century in Britain - with a few notable exceptions - this was what motivated Sharp and his cronies to mount a rescue operation to save what was still remembered.
A bit later in Ireland but that was the case when we started collecting in the 70s (again, with a few notable exceptions)
Even what was being remembered had to be rescued by the Beeb in the 1950s because it was disappearing rapidly.
Our friend, Tom Munnelly, who collected more songs than any single individual in these islands, described his job as full time collector as "a race with the undertaker" - that was back in the 70s.
That traditional songs will remain to be collected third or forth hand from someone who remembered meeting someone who remembers meeting someone who remembers them being sung is a very welcome inevitability - long may that continue to happen, but the only singers we met, with the exception of Travellers, who actually participated in a living tradition are all dead - the rest learned them from the previous generation.
Moving the goalposts of what you mean by tradition only clouds the issue - it doesn't help us to continue to listen to or sing or pass on these songs - as is shown by the decline of folk clubs.
We worked with MacColl (another taboo subject) who wrote more songs than anyone I can name, and who insisted that clubs were "no more than museums is they didn't cater for and encourage the making of new songs - he was quite clear of what he meant by folk songs and was insistent that what he wrote didn't fall under that description and never would unless they passed through the oral process (he was delighted that Travellers took up some of his songs and Sam Larner thought Shoals of Herring had been around forever (though he didn't know a word of it))
Folk songs can be immortal if they are not swamped out by other songs because it is convenient for some to do so.
They are as timeless as Shakespeare or Dickens, despite the general disinterest and sometimes hostility shown towards all of these.
They can still entertain, inform and move if they are allowed to.
But just as importantly, they provide an ideal template to make new songs that do the same job as the old ones did - allow us all to express ourselves; Ewan's, Peggy's, Con 'Fada' O'Driscoll's, Tim Lyons's Fintan Vallely's, Adam McNaughton's, Eric Bogle's.... and all the other great songwriter's new creations prove that beyond the shadow of a doubt.
That they are not traditional is unimportant - that's only a name - a label to identify what they we are talking about so we can make people aware of them.
Jim Carroll