We are discussing the degree of jingoism versus the degree of commemoration.

For Teribus to wade in and try to stifle the debate by his immature "it's all commemoration with no jingoism" is not only irrelevant to debating the degrees but also professing profound ignorance.

If the absurd position taken by Teribus, Keith, Michael Gove and HiLo had merit, nobody would have bothered debating it in the first place. But clearly, poster boy parades for the benefit of the recruiting sergeant still persist, still exacerbate conflict and still confuse the glory, pomp and circumstance of glorious war with the assertive social worker role many of our soldiers view their trips abroad as.

That the November services merely remind intelligent people of the ugly side of military incompetence is sad, because when they began many years ago, they were a warning to us all of the horrors of war, the bad decisions that lead to unnecessary death and to mourn rather than thank those slaughtered.

They have been hijacked by the crocodile tears of those who use war as a tool or for those with fancy uniforms, a reason to exist.