For someone who stated that they were "staying clear of threads that involve Keith and Teribus" you seem to be having a great deal of trouble doing precisely that.

Teribus: "Was the Easter Rising a useless waste? Yes it was to everyone except those who wished to promote armed struggle (Exactly the same could be said about "The Troubles"). Would Ireland have gained home rule and then total independence had there been no Easter Rising yes it would the Bill was already on the statue books. Would the North have still elected to break away, yes in all probability it would as it's industry, commerce and culture was more aligned to the mainland than that of the South and they would naturally look to their own best interests."

Steve Shaw: "Nothing like a nice bit of theory. Lots of what-ifs there."

Oddly enough Shaw - not one single WHAT-IF to be seen in what I stated, only piece of conjecture there regarded the decision of the North to part company from any united independent Ireland and that is hardly conjecture as that is exactly what they did in fact do in 1921.

Some posters here seem desperate to move the discussion on three years to highlight the atrocious behaviour of the "Tans" but those self same people feel it appropriate to pass over the reasons the "Black and Tans" and the "Auxiliaries" came into existence. These were the result of Sinn Fein winning the 1918 election and their failure to outrightly condemn the murder of a policeman lawfully engaged in escorting a delivery of explosives to a quarry that was attacked by members of the IRA (who obviously needed those explosives for some perfectly legal and peaceful purpose no doubt). The failure to condemn the action prompted an "open season" on anyone wearing the Crown on their uniforms and as their elected government in Ireland did not protect its "servants" charged with the maintenance of law and order recruitment plummeted and alternative arrangements had to be made. The actions of the RIC, the Tans and the Auxiliaries were rightly condemned both in Ireland and in the rest of Great Britain which caused them to be first withdrawn and then disbanded. Here we come to the value of fiction versus historical fact the outrage at Croke Park is attributed in fiction and in popular belief to the Black and Tans the fact of the matter was that not a single member of the Black and Tans was present in Croke Park that Sunday - Regular members of the RIC accompanied by a small detachment of Auxiliaries carried out the massacre. Still no matter eh? Never let fact get in the way of a good story. And that is where I part company with most here on this forum - I believe that if you are going to tell a story then at least have the integrity and honesty to get it right. Ask Mr Carroll for the date Kitchener was forced to resign - then go to the history books and find out that he never did resign and that he was never forced to resign. Mr Carroll however knows better and will still persist in claiming that Kitchener was forced to resign. One of the reasons I have long since given up entering into any discussion with him as even when proven to be completely wrong he conveniently ignores all presented and recorded fact.